Talk:Peter Gabriel (1982 album)

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Progressive Rock

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Untitled[edit]

I've slightly edited some of the song interpretations contained in the article, as some of them are at best misunderstood, and at their worst, utterly mistaken. For example, shock the monkey is absolutely nothing to do with animal experimentation, nor is there any imagery evoked thereof. Gabriel has been at pains to explain, in song introductions at shows and as well as contained within the Spencer Bright biography, that the song is about jealousy - the shock therein the protagonist's anxiety at the 'discovery' (imagined or otherwise) of infidelity. The anxiety is highlighted to such an extent because one of the over-arching themes of the album is that of the overtaking of the somewhat more naturalistic aspects of humanity (as Gabriel saw them) by other, more artificial and ironically man-made ideals. The ideas of trust, communication and influence, coupled with their attachment to nature, enduring culture and ritual, are explored in every one of the songs, the antagonism generated by the meeting of the two providing much of the album's power and insight. For example, the Family and the Fishing Net explores the 'hidden' rituals performed within marriage ceremonies - a throwback to ancient rites, but retained, juxtaposed against modern convention. The theme is repeated in San Jacinto, where the titular mountain towers over the valley of golf courses, swimming pools and Frank Sinatras below, the mountain itself, a symbol of the recession of Native American culture (it is the mountain the boy of the story has to get back down after being bitten by a snake in order to become a brave) being submerged in the mainstream americana below. The album's first track is the most obvious juxtaposition of the two, detailing Jung's trip to Africa, whereby being confronted with the impassioned dances of locals to hynoptic drumming, Jung unavoidably confronted his own nature, his own constitution as a man at its most base level - a look into his own soul - which profoundly disturbed him. The song's build-up and climax describe this encounter. I could go on but to do so would be overstating the case and may ruin some of the enjoyment a listener may get from seeing the connections in other songs. - unsigned comment by 81.79.230.0 on 01:17 (UTC), February 10 2006

""Shock the Monkey" a mediation on jealousy ..." Is that supposed to be a meditation on jealousy? Boris B 03:47, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, fixed. "Jacques the Manqué" as about how French men with this name feel a sense of failure. Fantailfan 12:35, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mask?[edit]

I know this one as Mask. I'm surprised not to see that even mentioned William M. Connolley (talk) 21:07, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

South Park[edit]

""Shock the Monkey" was also featured in episode 110 of the animated series South Park."

Who gives a fuck? Whay do people write so much irrelevant, worthless, dumb-ass shit like that on Wikipedia?? WTF???

"Security" title[edit]

My American copy of the LP does indeed say "Security," but only on the label. The title does not appear on the jacket, which simply says "Peter Gabriel" as depicted. I wonder if it is worth pointing out that the use of the alternate title did not involve a change to the jacket art, at least not at first. Richard K. Carson (talk) 06:07, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I read years ago in "Record Collector" magazine (UK) that the title was printed only on the album's shrink-wrap, at Gabriel's request, so the title was "disposable". The record company printed the title on the label against his wishes. I don't have a copy to hand to reference for the article, so maybe someone else has a reference(?) --Jd204 (talk) 23:26, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In an interview that I heard shortly after release of "Security", Gabriel conveyed that the title "Security" "crept on the label" against his knowledge (not merely against his wishes). It would be worth someone investigating the veracity of my claim or lack thereof. This particular issue is a very touchy subject among hardcore Gabriel fans, such as myself. It was important to us that the albums remain untitled, for consistency of both theme and character. Soledritswiki (talk) 07:14, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Quiex II pressing[edit]

The article lacks any mention of the Quiex II pressing of this album. Lore has it that when Gabriel heard the final LP, he was so unhappy with the sound that he commissioned a second pressing by Quiex. If anyone has verified information on the topic, it would be right to include it. I can only vouch for the fact that the pressing exists; I own a copy, as does a friend of mine.

The lore makes perfect sense to me, as the standard US pressing is really pretty awful. It has a compressed, bright, trashy sound and it's overwhelmed by the worst of early-80s digital recording artifacts. In contrast, the Quiex is almost like an entirely different recording, and it's fantastic - the differences between the two pressings are stark, almost shocking. Drlegendre (talk) 15:47, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Family International?[edit]

Perhaps Mr. Gabriel didn't want to mention it because of a possible backlash, but the cult "The Family of Love" (formerly called "The Children of God") and now known as "Family International" used a proselytization method known as "Flirty Fishing" to gain new members during the seventies. I vaguely remember FF being mentioned in exposés in the press during the mid to late '70s and a little bit into the early '80s. Knowing Mr. Gabriel's great talent for metaphor and double entendre could it be that "The Family and the Fishing Net" was also a sideways jab at this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.224.60 (talk) 03:45, 13 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Conflicting statements about musical tracks on German language version of first album.[edit]

This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Gabriel_(1982_album)#Deutsches_Album "Gabriel's previous German-language album, Ein deutsches Album (1980), is mostly an overdub of its corresponding English-language version"

Contradicts this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Gabriel_(1980_album)#Ein_deutsches_Album "Gabriel sang German vocals on top of completely new recorded instrumental and backing vocal tracks."

An "overdub" (in this instance) would refer to singing new vocals over existing instrumental tracks. But as all the vocals are new, the term "overdub" is insufficient, as it traditionally means adding in a bit of extra instrumentation, or backing vocals, not re-recording a primary element of an entire album.

One of the two statements regarding the instrumental backing for "Ein deutsches Album" is incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Interzone826 (talk • contribs) 05:19, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's a conflict alright.

Compounding the problem, neither one is sourced. There is already a "cite needed" tag here. I've similarly tagged the other article.

In the best case, someone will dig up a reliable source (not a blog!) for this and we can harmonize the articles and cite the material. I do not personally have the time to do that right now.

Failing that, both claims will have to be removed in favor of vague wording that the German album uses different "versions" of the songs. - SummerPhD^v2.0 15:40, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is this - "As with ein deutsches album, Peter used the opportunity presented by this record to re-work the music as well as change the language of delivery. As a result there are noticeable musical differences compared to the English language edition." -- https://petergabriel.com/release/deutsches-album/ -- Beardo (talk) 15:56, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Deutsches Album track listing[edit]

Should we really be linking the individual tracks back to the articles on the original songs ? Those are linked earlier in the article, and the linked pages do not mention the German versions. -- Beardo (talk) 15:40, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

New wave genre?[edit]

Several editors have tried to add new wave music as the album's genre displaying in the infobox. Late70s-80sNewWave did so last December[1] but without any reference. Thimoty Freick added new wave in May,[2] citing the book Are We Not New Wave?: Modern Pop at the Turn of the 1980s. Unfortunately, the book never mentions this album, so it fails as a source. And it doesn't even come down solidly in calling Peter Gabriel a new wave musician, instead fingering Adam Ant as the person who was bringing the "Burundi Beat" into new wave.

The latest effort is by Ane Crawley who tried several sources. First was Stereogum,[3] which says PG's art rock was "tinged" with new wave and post-punk, then goes on to say that one song, "I Have the Touch", was "a corroded piece of new wave funk". But one song's genre is not the album genre.

After that, Ane Crawley brought in a source from ReplicantEars,[4] a little-known review site which appears to be an outlier opinion, voicing a conclusion reached by nobody else.

Finally, Ane Crawley cited Ladosis, a Spanish-language source,[5] but Ladosis says that the album is not new wave. It says that the world was drowning in new wave and synth pop but Peter Gabriel was not following the crowd; instead he was incorporating African drums and tribal music. I get the feeling that someone is desperately trying to find sources containing the term "new wave" just to plaster that label on this album. But the genres we display in the infobox should be ones that are widely described by reviewers. Binksternet (talk) 18:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A similar and probably connected effort is by the Brazil IP range Special:Contributions/2804:7F4:3484:163B:0:0:0:0/64 which has been trying to label some Peter Gabriel stuff as new wave. Binksternet (talk) 18:20, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

An album (and especially this album) can reflect multiple genres. It's possible to list multiple genres applying to individual songs. But I agree that the support from reliable sources for this particular genre claim is weak at best. Mgnbar (talk) 14:01, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The genre of a song is from reliable sources talking about the song genre, not the album or artist genre. The genre of an album is from reliable sources talking about the album genre, not the various songs or the artist. The genre of an artist is from reliable sources talking about the artist, not a song or an album. Binksternet (talk) 17:08, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Drums[edit]

How can Gabriel be credited as playing "additional" drums on track 2 when the track has no other drum credit at all? Either Gabriel plays all the drums or there's something missing. Cbcbcb4124 (talk) 06:59, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]