Talk:United States Navy 1975 ship reclassification

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Permission to reprint[edit]

from sci.military.naval FAQ (http://www.hazegray.org/faq/smn6.htm ), Part F Surface Combatants, Section F.8 - reprinted with permission

Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 21:26:08 -0400

To: "Peter Sam"

From: "Andrew Toppan"

Subject: Re: sci.military.naval FAQ - request permisssion to use parts on another website

Yes, you may use them.

>Hello Andrew Toppan,

> I am very impressed with your FAQ. With your permission, I would like to use the following 2 sections as part of Wikipedia articles:

>Section F.4: Meaning of warship types, i.e. "frigate","cruiser" and "destroyer" http://www.hazegray.org/faq/smn6.htm#F4

>and Section F.8 The 1975 reclassification of US cruisers, frigates and ocean escorts http://www.hazegray.org/faq/smn6.htm#F8

>Of course, you and your website would be given credit. Please let me know if my request is possible.

>Thank you, Petersam 23:05, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Needs Headings/Subheadings/etc. for readability and wiki standards[edit]

That is all. :) - Ageekgal 14:36, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Took a stab. Somebody else can either fix them, or remove the cleanup tag if they look good. --Steelviper 21:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cruiser gap?...[edit]

I have doubts about basis of the "cruiser gap". In fact, in 1974 the Soviets had only 4 cruisers of Grozny class (Kynda class cruiser) and 2 helicopter ASW cruisers Moskva class. There were 4 more ships of project 1134 class (Kresta I class cruiser) - but according to Russian books, they were classified as "big ASW ships" - bolshye protivolodochnye korabli - BPK at that time and only in 1977 there were reclassified as cruisers! There existed also 6 ships of Project 1134A class and 2 of project 1134B (Kresta I class cruiser and Kara class cruiser), with 4 and 5 more in construction, but they were always classified as BPK (although they are known as cruisers abroad). Construction of the first Kirov class "heavy missile cruiser" only started in 1974, and of Slava cruiser in 1976 (although both were enlisted in 1973). Two Minsk class "heavy aircraft cruisers" were laid in 1973, but they are commonly classified as aircraft carriers abroad. So it makes only 6 ships named "cruisers" in 1974, and 12 BPK, that could be easily treated as Soviet counterparts of DLG class as well... Pibwl ←« 19:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

..I also find the idea that the U.S., during the height of the Cold War, acquiesced to Soviet nomenclature implausible - extremely implausible. This claim needs better validation/documentation than what is given by the Haze Gray faq page, if it is in fact true. I would speculate that either NATO or some other → allied ← political motivation was behind any change in designation. (Although with politics controlling purse strings, plain stupidity can't be ruled out.) 173.189.74.9 (talk) 18:10, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The cruiser gap was promoted by American opposition politicians who wanted to criticize the US government and increase defense spending so they exaggerated the situation. Also remember that the US intelligence on the actual ( as opposed to feared ) size and names of the Soviet warships would have been poor at best at the time. These politicians said 'they have x cruiser sized vessels and we only have y ships called cruisers, which proves we are are outnumbered.' Renaming the ships was a cheap method to undermine the argument. 178.15.145.204 (talk) 15:35, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've clarified it a bit, using JFS 1975-76. It says, that the Soviet ships were classified as cruisers or "large anti-submarine ships", but were designated as cruisers by Western navies. So they invented the "gap", basing upon false principles ;) Then it would more or less fit: 4 Kynda, 4 Kresta I, 6 (or 7) Kresta II, 2 (or 3) Kara and apparently 2 Moskva. Pibwl ←« 11:16, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]