Talk:Alphons

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Alphonso / Alfonso[edit]

I don't understand why the title of the page is Alfonso (the name in Italian and Spanish), when within the heading it is said that Alphonso is the spelling of the name in English. Shouldn't we move the title to the English name?--RR' 09:03, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The "ph"[edit]

The "ph" in most of the Alphonsos here seems to be an archaic spelling. For example: "Alphonso V" Aragon yields 180 results on Google, and "Alfonso V" Aragon yields 963. I will check and change over those Alphonsos that yield similar results and provide Alfonso redirects for borderline cases as I have time. --maveric149

The "ph" was obliterated from Spanish orthography in 1780s. I thaught 'Alphonso' wass the name in the English tradition. Other than that, which variant should you choose? The French Alphonse? the Catalan Alfons? the contemporary Spanish Alfonso? or the Portuguese one or...? Perique des Palottes 2002/07/25

I really don't think "Alphonso" is an English spelling. To the extent that we have the name in English, it's "Alphonse". I say change these guys to Alfonso (the only way I've ever seen them anyway). - Montréalais

I am now moving all the Spanish Alphonsos to Alfonso. I don't know how the Portuguese Alphonsos should be spelt and I would appreciate input. - Montréalais

Is the choice between Afonso or Affonso (the Portuguese name) and Alfonso (the usual translation) and Alphonso (the old-fashioned translation)? I would think using Alfonso would be fine, if only to match the Spanish ones. Googling on these + Portugal (as an approximation as it will also catch non-king references):

Afonso & Portugal 59,200

Affonso & Portugal 4,770

Alfonso & Portugal 76,100

Alphonso & Portugal 2,690

Alphonse & Portugal 9,030

Someone else 07:04 Dec 29, 2002 (UTC)

Redirects[edit]

I have finished fixing the redirects for the Alfonsos of Castile as far as Alfonso IX. If you want to continue, please let me know how far you got. I'm going to bed ^_^ - Montréalais

Afonso[edit]

Alfonso is not portuguese. Portuguese translation is Afonso (one f). I understand that is problaby more correct for English Wikipedia to put Alphonso or Alfonso, but, as a portuguese, I find that somewhat strange. Is like calling King John Charles to El Rey Juan Carlos de Espana. Perhaps I should substitute every Alfonso... Opinions? Muriel Gottrop

You are quite right. There has never been an "L" in the Portuguese variant of the surname. However, it has been spelled "Affonso" and "Afonco" on occasion. This style went mostly out of use from about the early 19th century although I suppose it would be possible to find someone somewhere using that more archaic form today.

The tradition in Portugal is to associate the Afonso surname with the illegitimate royal line beginning with Count Henry of Burgundy, father of the first Portuguese king, in the 11th century. Henry's illegitimate son was named Afonso. His legitimate heir was Afonso Henriques (Afonso, son of Henry) who became the first of the Burgundian dynasty that established Portugal as an independent and sovereign nation nearly 350 years before a united Spain in 1492.

Most subsequent rulers of Portugal until the late middle ages reserved "Afonso" for the identity of a natural child who, although of paternal royal blood, could not assume the throne. The Burgundian dynasty was followed by the Avis and then the Braganza dynasties, but in most instances, the surname "Afonso" was reserved for and adopted by illegitimate lines as a means to track them. Their social status ranged from the highest level of noble to commoner. Today, the surname Afonso is relatively rare and it is diffused throughout the country, suggesting multiple origins.

Grandcross 03:44, 8 July 2014 (UTC)grandcross — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grandcross (talk • contribs)

Ildephonsus[edit]

Is Alfonso a variant of Ildephonsus?

Expansion and Dab[edit]

Hello peolple! Please don't think I'm trying to place in this one dab page all the people named Alfonso, Alfons, Afonso, Affonso, Alphonse, Alphons, Alphonso, Alphonzo, Hildefuns, Ildefonso or Ildephonsus (plus all the variants). This is a preliminary step to build up different disambiguation pages for all those names, connecting the pages between them. Do you agree? Hope so. Cheers! The Ogre 20:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done! But I've changed my mind. I now think it should all stay in the same dab page. What do you think? The Ogre 04:50, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

alfons = pimp[edit]

In Danish, Polish and Norwegian the word alfons means pimp and is almost unused as a given name. This meaning is derived from the pimp who is the main character of the comedy Monsieur Alphonse (1873) by Alexandre Dumas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.74.142.188 (talk) 07:38, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would assume this is notable enough to be mentioned (a source is found at http://denstoredanske.dk/Samfund,_jura_og_politik/Jura/Kriminalret,_speciel/alfonseri ) - and in any case, the Dumas character should have been mentioned under the Fictional characters section. Any objections to such an amendment?

Adefons[edit]

Adefons might easily be a corruption of Adelfons, but it turns out the earliest records of the name do not have the -l-. Förstemann makes a point of recording both forms as valid names and saying that they cannot reasonably be kept apart. It is also not clear what the element ath is supposed to mean, but it is well recorded. It may itself be a conflation of various prefixes, including hath and also a shortened athal.

Förstemann also says that Adefons was the name of a 6th-century Visigothic king (but no such king figures in our list), and of course this makes perfect sense if the name reappears as the name of Iberian royalty 200 years later. But then it should be treated as Gothic in form. --dab (𒁳) 17:18, 2 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is surprisingly complicated. We can mine expertise posted in an extensive online discussion in 2007, [1][2]. According to this (citing José Pedro Machado's Dicionário Onomástico Etimológico da Língua Portuguesa),

Adefonsi is recorded in documents between 867-912
Adelffonsus in a document of 915
Adelphonsi in 1050
Alfonso in 875
Afonso in Portuguese first in 1024; Alfonso last recorded in Portugal in 1256 (will of Mahaud of Savoy)
The name has been conflated (used interchangeably) with Ildefonsus from an early time.

The (rare) forms Adelfonsus in the 10th and 11th century seem to substantiate the existence of the name athal+funs. But this may still have been conflated with a separate name ata+funs and/or ala+funs. The Al- form may also have been strengthened by association with the Arabic article (Beni Alfons), and/or by conflation with Ildefons (hildi+funs). --dab (𒁳) 10:32, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]