Talk:Leland Stanford

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comments[edit]

Wetheter or not this is a stub is not worth an edit war. Everyone should calm down, take a deep breath, and talk about it. Gentgeen 09:53, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I'm not the unresponsive one - "A stub on Wikipedia is a very short article, generally of one paragraph or less" --Jiang 06:07, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I wasn't assigning blame, just sugesting there was a lot of effort going into an edit war over a stub notice. I just wanted a cooling off period, which I believe has happened. Gentgeen 07:12, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Full name[edit]

Shouldn't his full name be "Amasa Leland Stanford, Junior"? Since Stanford Uni's full name is exactly that (minus Amasa and the comma). --Menchi 03:57, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It should be "Amasa Leland Stanford, Senior", since Stanfurd University is named after his son. But since his son wasn't really notable and died young, we might as well settle w/o the "senior".--Jiang 06:06, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

"Stanford" University

Wait, why is Amasa in his name? I've never heard him referred to that, and don't find it in the cited works. Am I just blind? Metzby 04:45, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jared Vazquez[edit]

Can someone add to this article and explain why the entry is for "Jared Vazquez" when everywhere else the man is called "Leland Stanford". That is an enormous lapse. BooksXYZ (talk) 14:39, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why I reverted[edit]

The last edit, by an anon, changed two facts. One of the facts was the end date of Stanford's term as Governor from 1963 to 1967. As this doesn't match with the California State Capitol Museum or the Secretary of State of California's list of Governors (I've got the PDF here, but don't remember the link), I'm going to assume bad faith on the other change as well. If I'm wrong, please provide documentation. Gentgeen 20:34, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Gentgeen, his term of governor ended in 1863, not 1963.

Disputed facts from anon[edit]

The following dispute from 66.81.61.79 was placed in the article over the weekend:

Stanford was never president of the southern Pacific Railroad. Anyone who thinks he was simply knows no railroad or Stanford history. Moreover, Stanford did not die in Palo Alto. He died at his home on the Palo Alto Stock Farm. On both points and thousands of others, see my The Governor: The Life and Legacy of Leland Stanford. Norman E. Tutorow NET@TDL.Com

As to the presidency claim, I found that in a book on the history of the Southern Pacific railroad. I'll find the full reference and add it as soon as I can. slambo 15:43, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

Slambo, have you added this reference yet? If so, where is it?

Longer than expected to get back to this task, but there are two print references for railroad presidency positions. I'm sure I've got more around here... Slambo (Speak) 22:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Youth and early career?[edit]

(new topic) How about adding more to the main article about Stanford's early life, like he began life as an attorney and received his law degree in 1845 and passed the bar exam in 1848. From: PBS - The West web site.

Donation of land to Stanford:

Given Stanford's background prior to the donation to what was to become Stanford University, this is likely apocryphal: But is there any truth to the legend you hear that Stanford tried to make the donation to established universities, but was snubbed as looking like a poor farmer and left waiting for hours to see the university's president?----Gregory Solman

As an advocate of the Worker Cooperative[edit]

In later life, Leland Stanford's view of the worker in the industrial complex substantially changed. I haven't added anything on this to the text but I have linked to a reliable source. His worker cooperative theory remains radical today and for this I have tagged this article of high importance to WP:COOPWP:COOPERATIVES.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 14:31, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 05:49, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Evil[edit]

He chased farmers off their lands without any financial compensation in order to build his railroad. I spit on him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.85.247.51 (talk) 19:52, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Was Leland Stanford a robber baron?[edit]

These scholars think he was:

  • "Leland Stanford was a member of a successful class, he became known as a robber baron, a selfish representative of the octopus-age of railroad growth." Tuterow, Norman E. The governor: the life and legacy of Leland Stanford, a California colossus, Volume 2. (2004: Arthur H. Clark Co.2004) page 1146.
  • "In 1934 Matthew Josephson, in the midst of the Great Depression, coined the pejorative term 'robber baron' to describe the industrialists he considered little more than brigands: Edward H. Harriman (1848–1909), Union Pacific Railroad; Leland Stanford (1824–93), Southern Pacific Railroad; and James J. Hill (1838-1916), the Great Northern Pacific Railroad." Carlisle, Rodney P. (editor). Handbook to Life in America, Vol. 4. (April 2009: Facts on File) page 8.
  • "Each has a name instantly associated with contemporary California: Mark Hopkins (the venerable Nob Hill Hotel), Leland Stanford (the university), Charles Crocker (Crocker National Bank), and Collis P. Huntington (as in Huntington Beach). They were dubbed the Big Four, and not just because of their robber baron notoriety: together they weighed in at 900 pounds." Cummings, Bruce. "Dominion from Sea to Sea: Pacific Ascendancy and American Power." (2009: Yale University Press.) page 672.
  • "The ex- governor of California, president of both the Central Pacific Railroad and the Pacific Mail Steamship Company, Stanford was a classic robber baron, who owned two hundred horses, a palatial Palo Alto estate, and his own private race course." Lindsay, David. Madness in the Making. (2005: Universe.) page 214.
  • "...and Leland Stanford (1824–1893) were other late- nineteenth-century men and women of wealth and power who left sizable philanthropic legacies, perhaps spurred into giving by the pejorative label robber baron." Goethals, George R. et al. Encyclopedia of Leadership, Vol. I. (2004: Sage Publications.) page 897.
  • "When one spoke of a “Robber Baron”, Leland Stanford would be among the first names to come to mind." Altenberg, Lee (Winter 1990) "Beyond Capitalism: Leland Stanford’s Forgotten Vision." Sandstone and Tile, Vol. 14 (1): 8-20, Stanford Historical Society, Stanford, California. This citation is from Stanford University's own historical society publication! Chisme (talk) 16:30, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly, he was a robber baron, and every school child in California learns this. If you want to go with the "at times he was considered a robber baron," please cite instances here where he was not considered one. He is even considered a robber baron on the Stanford campus. Several years ago, when Stanford decided to drop the "Indian" mascot, students voted for the "robber baron" mascot. Serious followers of California history know who the robber barons were and that Leland Stanford was one of them. Chisme (talk) 23:11, 14 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would hardly call 35 years ago 'several' in regards to the mascot dispute. However two of your sources contradict each other. One states that the term wasn't coined until 1934, well after their deaths. The other states they may have left money to beneficial causes "perhaps spurred into giving by the pejorative label" which implies the term was contemporary. Also the Palo Alto estate was not palatial (they planned to make it palatial but the death of their son changed their plans) which indicates less than careful research. There is a difference between scholars noting that many called him a 'robber baron' (completely true) and the scholars themselves calling him a robber baron (not all of yours sources do this). I've reverted but also changed the wording to indicate that many called him so rather than that at some times he was so called. Erp (talk) 04:23, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
From Robber baron (industrialist):
Robber barons is a derogatory term applied to wealthy and powerful 19th-century American businessmen. By the late 1800s, the term was typically applied to businessmen who used what were considered to be exploitative practices to amass their wealth. These practices included exerting control over national resources, accruing high levels of government influence, paying extremely low wages, squashing competition by acquiring competitors in order to create monopolies and eventually raise prices, and schemes to sell stock at inflated prices to unsuspecting investors in a manner which would eventually destroy the company for which the stock was issued and impoverish investors.
If that doesn't apply to Leland Stanford, I don't know what does. Because the term itself is derogatory, I'm gong to take the adverb "derogatory" out of your edit. I'm also going to take out the slightly weasle-wordy "by many" out and change it to "many.: (Apropos de rein, his estate was palatial. It had its own horse racing track and stables for godsakes.) Chisme (talk) 16:20, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

From Palo Alto or not?[edit]

Markvo just included the category People from Palo Alto, California. However, the city of Palo Alto didn't exist during Stanford's lifetime, and the site of their residence wasn't incorporated into the city until 50 years later. The issue of whether the Stanfords were from Palo Alto came up several months ago at Talk:Leland Stanford, Jr. and still isn't resolved. Basically, the question is whether someone can be in a place category if they died before the place was founded - should Jesus be in People from Israel, for example. It's essentially a WP:COP consistency policy challenge - see here. jxm (talk) 23:52, 28 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not I would say though Leland Stanford being directly involved in the founding of Palo Alto has a claim to be in some Palo Alto categories (unlike his son). Being from a city implies being involved in the city's life. Coming from a larger region can mean either the physical boundaries of the region or being involved in that region's culture. I note Markvo also put down Herbert Hoover though the Hoover house is not and never has been in Palo Alto. --Erp (talk) 05:14, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Racism against the Chinese section[edit]

@WCCasey: this entire section is created from a single source, and somewhat misrepresents it. I will cleanup. If you want to re-add content, be sure to cite the actual text from the quote, as in many cases this content is not supported by the citation. I have also tagged the section with refimprove. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 18:24, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have included the entire quote in this section for now. If anyone else wants to discuss that would be welcome. I am on the fence if this quote now doesn't comply with WP:LONGQUOTE. If you feel it doesn't comply, then we can discuss what to do with it. The previous quote in my reading took Stanford's statements out of context. He appears to be saying here that:
  • "To my mind it is clear, that the settlement among us of an inferior race is to be discouraged by every legitimate means."
  • He goes on in the next sentence to define the inferior race as Asia's "dregs of her population."
  • He then advocates that immigration should choose one of two types. He does not define these two types, but it appears from above text he is referring to the opposite of dregs of a population.
Therefore, this does not appear to be an entirely racial argument as it is presented in the article. It appears to be more a class-based argument. I think the articles anti-Chinese sentiment is an WP:NPOV issue.
Those are my thoughts Jtbobwaysf (talk) 08:57, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Undue weight in lead[edit]

The lead says he was a robber baron, but there is no mention of that in the body. The body should expand on this. It is pretty well against the style guide MOS:INTRO to have statements in the lead but no mention of them in the body. Adpete (talk) 23:44, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Or remove it from the lede if it cant be supported in the body. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 00:34, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Though there are references above on this talk page which seem to support it. If no one wants to do the work now, a reasonable short term solution would be to move the sentence and references out of the lead, and put them at the end of the "Businesses" section. Adpete (talk) 00:52, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 09:13, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

About the California Indian Genocide section[edit]

What is the purpose of this paragraph? It says nothing about Mr Stanford, and the law cited was passed before he became Governor. Recommend deletion. DeknMike (talk) 04:05, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think it has to do with the Bald Hills War (1858–1864) which overlapped with his two years as governor (1862-1863). I would probably rewrite and point people to the California genocide article for context and leave the bits having to do with the Bald Hills War though I think we need some good secondary sources on Stanford's role (I note that the Act for the Government and Protection of Indians which allowed for the enslavement of Native Americans had the enslavement part repealed while he was in office). --Erp (talk) 03:25, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've cleaned up a bit. As mentioned we could do with some proper secondary source info on Leland Stanford's actions. --Erp (talk) 02:36, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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