Talk:Holstein Friesian

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Friesian Cattle1[edit]

The UK Friesian is a different breed to the Holstein. This needs to be sorted. Slipperyfishman (talk) 13:47, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

😂😂😂😂😂 2403:3800:5289:62DD:1611:14FF:FE8A:E50B (talk) 02:28, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I found it very confusing to be reading about one type of cow and then coming upon a different type mid-article. Is this a botched merge of some sort?? 173.164.86.190 (talk) 19:26, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weight Section[edit]

The weight section states "While Holstein bulls will may reach over 2,000 pounds (900 kg)." Should it be will reach, or may reach? I would change it, but I'm not sure which. GavinTing 09:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think "may reach" is the right thing; according to the breeding rules, they may not be to big, or to small, or else, the Holstein breed will, in time, get weaker. -The Bold Guy- 10:34, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

both breeds and crossbreeds[edit]

UK Parliament 1990-07-13 Written answers:

AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD Dairy Herd
Mr. Denzil Davies : To ask the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what percentage of the United Kindom's total dairy herd is comprised of (a) Friesian cattle and (b) Holstein cattle.
Mr. Maclean : Friesian and Holstein cattle together constitute 90 per cent. of the United Kingdom's total dairy herd. It is not possible to determine separate figures for each breed. Many dairy herds contain both breeds together with Friesian/Holstein crossbreeds.

See also:

So according to the UK department of Agriculture, Holstein and Friesian are not the same breed. This suggests that the wikipedia article is not as accurate as it might be --Philip Baird Shearer 23:39, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've added this information to the article as I think it is worth having, at least until such time as someone writes an article about the Friesian. Hairy Dude 20:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And? It was the US department of Agricultue that came up with the idea to call those animals Holstein in the first place. The difference between a Friesian and a Holstein in this context is rather whether the animal is a descendant of an (in)direct import in the UK from the US or the Netherlands. For your information, the British Friesian is itself considered a separate breed too.ThW5 12:19, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This animal is usually used also for cross breading with Angus to increase the angus production. This is poor for the consumer in that it thins out the bloodline and makes the animal LESS pure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.108.250.135 (talk • contribs) 13:24, 14 April 2006

Historically, Friesians and Holsteins have the same origins. During the 19th Century, the best stock were exported everywhere as foundation stock. 2 things happened:

1. US purchasers knew the breed as Holsteins while in Europe the name Friesian was used, but the cattle were the same breed.

2. During the following 100 years the two continents pursued different breeding aims; the North Americans, having a seperate specialist beef industry, saw the "Holstein" as a pure dairy cow while the Europeans used them as "dual-purpose" for meat and dairy production.

This is why nowadays the Friesian is a smaller, hardier breed with reasonable meat qualities while the Holstein is a taller, finer animal with a better milk production performance and poor meat qualities. Modern agriculture has increased the demand in Europe for better specialist milking cattle and so North American bloodlines are heavily used, leading to "Holstein-Friesians" and eventually pure Holstein stock.

As it is not necessary to breed all dairy cattle to produce herd replacements, a large proportion must be bred to beef breeds. Friesians are better for this, but with the increased performance of Continental beef breeds, the shortcomings of Holsteins are largely irrelevant. For example, a Belgian Blue x Holstein will be a more profitable beef animal than an Angus x Friesian.

This article could do with some work, I think part of the problem is that there are no good web references, I'll look into this if you all agree. Tractorboy60 21:59, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Famous Advertising Cow?[edit]

When Milton Hershey first started his chocolate company, his delivery cars were painted with Holstein Cows. Considering how widely known the Hershey Brand Name is, maybe this should be added to the article. Also, there's large amount of dairy commercials that use the Holstein in America. Does this carry over to Europe too? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Distrot (talk • contribs) 22:36, April 25, 2006 (UTC)

I was unaware of the Hershey cow, but I did add some notes in that Holstein are seen as the stereotypical 'cow'. This suggests they are used in advertising (Gateway 2000 and Chik-fil-a), but I didn't say that explicitly. You might want to add the Hershey cow thing there. Also, check the linked article at Cattle, since most of those 'cows' are Holsteins. --Mdwyer 02:42, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Holstein cow image[edit]

As a registered breeder who shows Holstein cows, I have to say, the currently posted image of a Holstein cow is a terribly poor representation of what Holstein cattle look like today. I hope this image is replaced soon, with a much more conformationally correct one! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mellogirl (talk • contribs) 03:36, July 11, 2006 (UTC)

I hope you are able to take a picture of one of your prize-winning animals and upload it -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.152.97.125 (talk) 15:43, July 26, 2006 (UTC)

Replaced Holstein cow image[edit]

I replaced the Holstein cow image with a more accurate representation of what high-quality Holstein cattle look like today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mellogirl (talk • contribs) 18:10, August 3, 2006 (UTC)

Redirect[edit]

I changed the title of a redirect; it must be "Frisian", instead of "Friesian", and I now have improved the spelling. Note, that the page still redirects to the Holstein (cattle)-page. -The Bold Guy- 10:32, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Only 4 spotted breeds?[edit]

Are we absolutely sure that there are only 4 spotted dairy breeds? During a quick scan through the list of breeds of cattle I already found one more. The article for Montbeliard Cattle shows pictures of spotted cows, and the article mentions it's use for meat and milk; so it's a dairy breed too, right? So do we cancel the statement that there are only 4 spotted breeds, or do we recheck all the cattle breeds and make a proper counting of the number of spotted dairy breeds? Secondly, I am not sure what the relevance of the number of spotted dairy breeds is. Why not include all spotted breeds (dairy and non-dairy) in the counting, or, what I propose: simply say something like "....although a considerable numer of cattle breeds does not have spots...." ?? RagingR2 21:47, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes,and arguably, the Normande is another. I don't think the point has any relevance. Nearly all the article has higher priorities than this, or sweets and ice cream for that matter. Tractorboy60 22:08, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just thought of another one. Maine-Anjou cattle Tractorboy60 14:23, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

History[edit]

I reorganized the beginning of the article into its relevant sections and added UK history from the Holstein UK website. I removed the reference to not being able to tell the difference between Holstein and Friesian in the 90% population as it was misinterpreted. What the reference meant was that they were unable to allocate a proportion of the population to Holstein, Friesian or Holstein Friesian because of cross-breeding. Also it is from 1990. Since then Holstein and Friesian societies have merged but there is still a distinct type, notably from die-hard Friesian breeders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tractorboy60 (talk • contribs) 07:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

Does anyone know the relevance of the list of references? I would like to delete them as we build up a list of cited references if no one objects. Also it looks like one of the External links is dead, while the other is for Red Holsteins, which is the subject for a whole section.Tractorboy60 19:22, 25 September 2007 (UTC). Now done, although I kept the World Holstein Federation one as it has a useful collection of statistics and links. Also, I was able to save the Ontario link with a bit of modification. Tractorboy60 14:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

USA[edit]

The reference to BST production hormone and lifetime yield are fair enough but not referenced. Other reasons why production is higher in the US are 3 x a day milking, and the fact that European black and whites include Friesian crosses. I'll try to find improved data for this.Tractorboy60 19:22, 25 September 2007 (UTC) Now done. Tractorboy60 14:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Production in the USA[edit]

Having found web resources for 3x a day milking in the US I was obliged to tag my own work with "citation needed" as I doubt that nearly 50% of cows are miked 3x over the whole of the US and can't find any info on this. The same applies to the UK, as it is one thing to know that the vast majority are milked 2x, but another to demonstrate it. Tractorboy60 19:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC) Now done. Tractorboy60 14:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Name of Article[edit]

We need to write a section on Friesian cattle here, re: Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/Skysmith's list of missing articles/Animals. Does anyone know why the article name was changed so's not to reflect the name Friesian? Maybe we should revert? You've all probably already had a discussion about this.If so, sorry. Tractorboy60 21:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. Given that the cow is from Friesland not Holstein and almost everyone outside the US seems to call them Friesians, to entitle the article as "Holstein" seems ridiculously Americocentric. Gmackematix —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.23.208.14 (talk) 19:15, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Holstein alone does not reflect the animal's history. Who changes it? Bushop (talk • contribs) 14:50, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The History chapter is more like a story[edit]

The information on the History part of the page is written more like a story than an encyclopedia or anything like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.180.236.219 (talk) 22:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree, I need to make it more succinct and spend more time on this. I'm sure you'll agree the Red Holstein part has the same problem. Tractorboy60 06:49, 2 October 2007 (UTC) I think this is now sorted. Tractorboy60 14:03, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reference for "not from Holstein?"[edit]

This is definitely missing a reference. Frisia includes "North Frisia" which later became part of "Holstein" and then "Schleswig-Holstein" in Germany. Stilt house remains, now submerged under the North sea date back quite a bit. What source indicates that the Frisians limited raising cattle to their western lands? Lisa4edit (talk) 22:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Added citation needed tag since no one has replied. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 12:56, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In the 19th an 20th century the Dutch (Western Frisia, and Holland) breeders where famous. Early 19th-century their cows where red (A famous example is the "The bull"). Because of an outbreak of mouth and claw disease cattle was imported from Holstein. Because black is very dominant, soon all cows became black. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank.wijnans (talk • contribs) 20:40, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Friesians and Holsteins[edit]

The article is quite confused as to naming.

There is, first of all, a tug-of-war between Holstein (as American usage) and Friesian (as non-American usage). This causes the two terms to be used interchangeably (and inconsistently) through the article. If the two terms are synonymous, one term should be stuck to throughout the article, no matter how unnatural or grating it seems to British or American ears. The best solution is probably to go to the earliest incarnation of the article and use that name. If Friesian was originally used and this has later been moved to Holstein, it should be moved back. If Holstein was used from the start, it should stay at Holstein. One-upmanship on either side is destructive of good article-writing.

However, there is some suggestion that the two terms are not synonymous. At a couple of places in the article it is noted that Holstein and Friesian are indeed different terms with somewhat different meanings (U.S. bloodlines vs European bloodlines). If that is the case, the nonchalant and interchangeable use of Holstein and Friesian is not merely confusing, it is downright incorrect. If the use of Holstein referred invariably to the American variety, and Friesian to the non-American, it might be reasonable to switch between the two terms, but this does not appear to be the case. The article needs a cleanup and some attempt at consistency in order to elevate it to the level of information rather than misinformation.

58.108.66.214 (talk) 09:12, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The whole discussion is as off as the article. Holstein-Friesian (HF) cattle are a cattle breed that was bred in the US from stock imported by North-Eastern Dutch and North German immigrants. The base race was what is called "schwarz-buntes Niederungsrind" (black patch low country cattle) in German. (The Dutch name is "Fries-Hollands".) It was re-imported to there and to the Netherlands because of the high milk production and low fat milk the US breeders had achieved (documented for 1876). The re-imports were then cross bred with the original local stock and started displacing them from the 1960s. Red Holstein cattle (which should be added to the article) were bred from a cross of re-imported Holsteins (HF) and "rotbuntes Niederungsrind" (red patch low country cattle). 71.236.26.74 (talk) 13:42, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The breed only exists as it's recorded in the studbook. The Dutch founded those in the early 20th century, to sell bulls to the US(they sold bulls before, but with a studbook they got better prices). In the first half of the 20th century, the Dutch started to pay according to fat and protein-content (now the price/litre is negative with plusses for fat and protein). So breeding started to turn to high fat and protein production.(Low fat has never been a pro for milk: it is skimmed before consumption. Because of the quota-system low fat compared to protein is good: the quotum is on fat). Next to that, the big, meatless cow was vulnerable to disease (And meat-rices where good in the middle of the 20th century). Acording to the book: "De koe" (the Cow) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank.wijnans (talk • contribs) 20:29, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Missing central info on genetic diseases[edit]

I find a long laundry list of notable sires, but no mention of CVM and BLAD. Pitke (talk) 21:29, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

HF and FH[edit]

In the Dutch dairy world we know the Holstein Frisian, HF. And the Dutch-Friesian, FH, and FH is the one they imported North-Holland (west-Frisia) and partly from Fryslân and from the North-German coast Black Pied German or German Niederungsrind (East and North Frisia in Holstein).

We can give this black pied cow a hundred names, but I think this black pied cow should deserve the name =Friesian= 100% above all others, like the Finnish Friesian, British Friesian. The state of Frisia once was a tribe that lived from South-Holland to Southern Jutland (Germany) all along the (western) coastline, even the Romans knew the Frisians, long before people even heard of "German/Deutsch", "Dutch/Hollands" or "Holstein".

And the Black Pied Friesian is definately a different cow than the Holstein, as the Holstein is a taller and bred mainly for milk and the Friesian is a bit smaller and also for meat.

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Bos primigenius[edit]

Is there a reason Bos primigenius is added in the infobox? I was going to replace it for Bos taurus, but I cannot access the text where the info is stored. I'm not sure if that is a protected section, or why is it not available to edits as the other parts of the infobox are. MGatta (talk) 08:45, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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