Talk:Madison Square Garden

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 30 October 2018 and 11 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tongxin Liu.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Josefhoracek, Klpoi5, Samantha O'Donnell, KDH26326HD, Ssledd1, Farzan Ikhlas, DefenderV, Blakenyguen, Cdunc2015, Tdao 1, Gjone34, Eshire1, Evig12, Marlena Holmes, Kwhite15, Jerome1919, Rentorawr, Alouisville7, Laursren, AleksandarTomic22, Oscarortiz1. Peer reviewers: DefenderV, Oscarortiz1.

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Hippodrome Theatre photo[edit]

I wonder why there's a photo of the Hippodrome Theatre in this article? The Hippodrome was located on Sixth Ave at 43rd St. Thanks Markhh 18:20, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted the erroneous photo Markhh 00:53, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

MSG basketball court[edit]

is basketball AND ice hockey played on the same court? or is it two seperate courts?

When the Knicks are about to have a home game, the basketball court is assembled on top of the hockey rink. During the Rangers off-season, the rink is melted

First basketball game[edit]

According to Madison Square Garden, 100 Years of History (Durso, 1979; ISBN 0-671-24425-6) the NYU-Notre Dame game (NYU 25-18) was the second game of a doubleheader; Westminster beat St. John's 37-33 in the opener. CharlieZeb 03:23, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)


Dolan family[edit]

This facility is owned by the Dolan family of New York. Any more info on that? Jawed 07:05, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

MSG, the television channel[edit]

The Garden runs a sports television channel named MSG viewable in the New York area, where I reside, and I wanted to discover if the channel was simply regional or perhaps nationally accessible in some way. It's disappointing to me that both FSN and the defunct venture CNNSI (in addition to cardinal network ESPN) have articles, but not a mention can be found on the 'pedia of MSG's television operations. Ground 04:09, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

NY Liberty game[edit]

Someone deleted the first NY Liberty game to be played at the Garden, citing the fact that it wasn't the first professional women's basketball game to be played there. I'm not a big fan of the Notable list in the first place, but I don't see how someone can delete that and leave the Quinnipiac hockey game there which uses the same rationale for a college sports game. Since that game is still on the list, I restored the Liberty game to the list and tweaked the wording so it actually is a first. Besides, the event is mentioned as a notable first on the Garden's own walls. --Jtalledo (talk) 18:32, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Seating capacity and height[edit]

The article mentions 20,000 seating capacity for concerts, but how much does it hold for boxing/wrestling events? Also, does anyone know the exact height from the arena floor to the roof of the arena?

It's about the same seating capacity for boxing and wrestling events. As for the height, the outside of the arena, from street level to roof, is 10 stories (about 100 feet) high. In the arena itself, from arena floor to ceiling, it is 66 feet high. I vaguely remember hearing this from a tour I took of the arena a couple of years ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Patriot174 (talk • contribs) 03:47, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Mass Wedding" in 1982[edit]

I put a note about this the other day. In my opinion it was an historical event. If you think otherwise I will not press the point. This is your article after all. Steve Dufour 15:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's actually "our" article technically - that's the point of the wiki concept. If you want, you can add it back to the "Historical events" section - it seems to be historically signifcant. Happy editing! --Jtalledo (talk) 17:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I will do that. I just don't want to start any conflict.Steve Dufour 20:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No prob. Thanks for the heads up. --Jtalledo (talk) 20:51, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you.Steve Dufour 21:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone know the largest crowd in MSG history? (the current version of the arena)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.183.110.24 (talk) 13:47, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WWE vs. WCW[edit]

I removed the statement about WWE blocking WCW from using the arena. It's uncited and more importantly, it's not relevant in the context of this article. There's enough WWE stuff in the article and this statement is more relevant to WWE and WCW than it is to the Garden. --Jtalledo (talk) 11:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the fact that WWE had such a strong relationship with MSG, that they were able to block their biggest competitor from appearing at the Garden is noteworthy, and belongs in this article. Milchama 11:04, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Anything with WWE and Madison Square Garden is always noteworthy.--Nascarking (talk) 22:01, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Too much WWE in Notable Firsts section[edit]

Out of the 13 items listed in 'Notable Firsts', 6 are WWE. I think that only Wrestlemania should be listed. No need for minor PPVs and the Elimination Chamber. What do you think? Milchama 17:39, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree - I'll remove some of the stuff if it's still there. --Jtalledo (talk) 18:41, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
WWE is a BIG reason Madison Square Garden is what it is toady. The WWE Championship has changed hands in this very building more than any other building in the world. Would you remove that. This is where HulkaMania: HULKAMANIA was born for christ sake. Because the Knicks are terrible, The people of the city have to sit through 82 game of their own team in the Worlds Most Famous Arena always loosing. WWE stealing the show in the Garden is the only thing that makes it worth keeping the Knicks alive. Because no New York Knicks, No reason for MSG because WWE can't do all their shows at the Garden. Too Much $$$. Even Vince i$n't Bill Gate$ Rich. So WWE is the reason MSG is what it is.--Nascarking (talk) 22:09, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Performers, artists, bands[edit]

If you're going to discuss music performances, how do you not mention Phish? They've played 19 sold-out shows there, including five New Year's Eve shows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.43.61 (talk) 20:06, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Phish has played at MSG 56 times as of 11/2/17 They are #1!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.2.219.117 (talk) 18:53, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What does this mean? In 2006, Madonna was marked as the performer with most performances played ever at the venue, beating out the Rolling Stones, with 23 performances. The artist who holds the all-time record for the greatest number of appearances at the Garden is Elton John who has played the arena 58 times. The band that played more dates in the Garden than any other is The Grateful Dead, rocking the arena an amazing 52 times from 1979 through 1994.[1]

Elton John has held the most concerts at MSG. The Grateful Dead has played the most concerts as a band at MSG. Where do Madonna and the Stones fall on this list? The Dead's 52 concerts are significantly more than the Stones' 23. And how many shows has Madonna played at MSG? If its nowhere near the 58 or 52 of Elton John and the Dead, I don't think they should be mentioned as "record holders". Milchama 17:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Since nobody has commented, I am going to remove the "records" held by Madonna and The Rolling Stones, because they need some more clarification. Elton John and The Grateful Dead have the record for most MSG performances by an artist and band, respectively. Milchama 17:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, it looks like someone has beaten me to it. Milchama 17:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Separate articles for MSG 1-3?[edit]

I propose splitting this article into 5 articles, for each MSG including the proposed new one. They are four (and potentially 5) different venues and shouldn't be bunched together. I'd like to hear pros and cons. Milchama 18:00, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is we have nearly no info on the first two. Only the third and current. I'd like to see it happen though.

Nyrmetros 21:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC) I'd like to see more information about MSG 1, II, and III as well..... MSG III was a magical place that gave credence and credability to MSG IV....[reply]

  • The third and fourth versions certainly have enough for separate articles now. The fifth can wait until the talk becomes a little more serious. The first and second would need a little more information. Patken4 01:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I added a split suggestion for the third (1925) and fourth (1968) versions. Patken4 01:47, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not from NY or USA for the matter but the article, as it stands, seems a manageable length. Although I know you mean to expand each of the segments as separate articles, my fear is that what remains may be a little bare. Chensiyuan 15:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, do what Chensiyuan said that is the generally accepted protocol. Create subpages with a detailed history, but still summarize the sections in this article. See History of the United States for more details. Quadzilla99 09:04, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Blue seat bias[edit]

  • Does anyone here besides me think that the ushers were biased towards Rangers fans when the fights occurred and they hauled away the opposing fan? WizardDuck 04:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes absolutely. For many years, the ushers at MSG were Rangers fans themselves, and had good relationships with the season ticket holders in the blue seats who would often 'tip' them generously in order for them to look the other way when it came to the activities of Rangers supporters in the blue seats. When opposing fans would come into the blue seats, the Rangers fans back in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's would give them hell, and the ushers would quietly walk away, and come back a bit later to escort the opposing fan out of the building for creating a scene. Times have changed though and there are no longer any ushers in the blue seats, just security guards who don't care about the Rangers or their passionate fans. In addition, the Rangers fans in the blue seats no longer seem to have that fiery edge that made them famous back in the day. Sure the fans there are louder than most, but that amount of fight betweens Rangers fans and opposing fans is certainly at an all time low for MSG IV. Nyrmetros 15:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Apparently NYR fans must have enjoyed getting away with hooliganism for the sole reason that the other guy was wearing the opposing team's colors. The non-NYR fan probably didn't even try to ignite it in most cases. WizardDuck 00:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Like anything, I'm sure incidents went down 50/50..... with Rangers supporters wanting to have a go with opposing fans for the mere fact that they entered sacred territory (the blue seats), and opposing fans wanting to start trouble away from home. I've seen both happen, though I will say in modern times, the Rangers supporters have refrained from violence in the blue seats unless the opposing fans incited them. Mostly it's just verbal sparring back and forth. Nyrmetros 20:31, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

50 Greatest Moments[edit]

I removed the list of the countdown from "The 50 Greatest Moments at Madison Square Garden". While there's no denial that they are great moments in the Garden's history, the coundown is 100% opinion, and it does not belong in this encyclopedia article. I propose that an article is made on the series The 50 Greatest Moments at Madison Square Garden, which can list the countdown and provide more information on the series. Milchama 12:11, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article Quality rating[edit]

I have given this article a quality rating of a B. I will be putting it through a peer-review and then nominating it for GA-status as I believe it is quite close. Until then the highest rating that can be given is a B. Acidskater 20:17, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Felt Forum????!![edit]

What about the Felt Forum? I saw the Ike and Tina Turner review there back 1974.

DavidMIA 13:57, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

THE DOORS[edit]

Someone should add that the Doors had a concert in the Garden. They had it in 1970. If you dont believe me look in the article "THE DOORS:BOX SET.

PROPOSAL: Move parts of this article to: Madison Square Garden, L.P.[edit]

I would like to propose that we move:

Madison_Square_Garden#Other_venues & Madison_Square_Garden#Other_corporate_operations

TO:

This article should be about the arena building only. - WikiDon 01:03, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Forthcoming concerts[edit]

The tour page says December 11 is scheduled for Las Vegas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.141.47.50 (talk) 01:01, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good, the whole section doesn't really belong in an encyclopedia, it is speculative, date sensitive, subject to cancellations, etc. We should keep it out. ~ WikiDon 02:14, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, this doesn't really belong in an encyclopedia because dates change constantly. Crmaster322 (talk) 00:21, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WTF?[edit]

White kept an apartment, site of the famous red velvet swing, in the building.

Famous? What swing? This makes NO sense whatsoever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.129.162 (talk) 19:24, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article is a mess[edit]

It's a rambling mess of disparate information that is tenuously connected by the name "Madison Square Garden". It needs to be broken up and better structured.

And -- in common with every opportunity to mention a band on Wikipedia -- there's far too much importance and information on bands and the albums recorded there. There is little need for a comprehensive list - or that list should be separate. The list of bands is duplicated in the article too. Remember band's works are commercial products, products of a controversial recording industry, one whom many regard as unethical -- promoting their work is spam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.129.162 (talk) 19:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Historic Events[edit]

The list of "Historic Events" has become a joke for this page. Are we just going to list every event that has occurred at MSG from 2007 on? All of those random shows from 2007 need to go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.242.112.108 (talk) 02:50, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why "Garden"?[edit]

The "Madison Square" portion of the name is well explained, but why was it called a "garden"? There is mention that the first incarnation was open-air, but that in itself doesn't really make it a garden. Yankee Stadium is open-air too, but I wouldn't call it "Yankee Garden". Can anyone clarify this bit of the MSG history? —Preceding unsigned comment added by CharleyCross (talk • contribs) 20:03, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is not located at Madison Square (although it was many years ago) and is, nor ever was, a 'garden'. What's going on, says this confused Englander ?
Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:45, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Concerts and live performances section getting a little big..[edit]

So, it seems only the most notable or famous concerts from the 70s-90s are listed, but the plethora of listing 2006-08 shows seems to reek of Recentism. Does anyone else think this should either be trimmed, or split into another article? IrisKawling (talk) 10:25, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Titans NLL[edit]

I changed some stuff about the New York Titans (NLL). I changed the 2008 stuff from future to past tense (since the season is over), and fixed other little things, but I don't actually know that it is true. Some NLL fan should verify this. Did the Titans have only six home games out of 16? Where is says that games were "lost" does this mean Titan home games were played in Buffalo and Toronto?  Randall Bart   Talk  00:38, 29 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article split[edit]

If no one has any issues, I plan on splitting this article into five articles. This article will be for the current venue primarily, with links to the other articles. From there, I would like to write an article for each of three previous arenas as well as the MSG Bowl. I think that to keep the article as is would not allow the other venues to get any focus and more information. In a similar vein to how the old and new Yankee and Wembley stadiums were split, I want to disambiguate by the year the particular venue was constructed. Thanks. Patken4 (talk) 20:35, 24 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As a Business: Madison Square Garden is a Failure.[edit]

As a Business: Madison Square Garden is a Failure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.121.182.78 (talk) 03:13, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WWE as a tenant[edit]

I removed the many WWE events from the "Tenants" section. Although MSG is a very important venue in WWF/E history, and considered its unofficial "home" arena, it is not a regular occurrence, since it is a constantly traveling promotion. There is plenty of mention in the article about being the host of the 1st Wrestlemania and other wrestling events. 72.229.239.238 (talk) 21:31, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just supprised with as big as WWE is to the Garden and Vise Versa that's all there is about WWE & MSG. More times the WWE Championship has changed hands in this very building than ANY PLACE in THE WORLD. The BIRTH place of HulkaMania. The birth of WrestleMania. This building saw the 1st match of the damonic structure, The Elimination Chamber. WWE has played a part in making the Garden in what it is today. Just like basketball players never want to fail in the Garden, WWE Superstars treat any event at Madison Square Garden like it is WrestleMania.--Nascarking (talk) 22:15, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation page?[edit]

The lede to this article is a bit cumbersome, as is the unorganized presentation of the different entities using this name. I propose adding a hatnote to the this article:

This article is about the current arena in New York City. For other uses, see Madison Square Garden (disambiguation).

removing discussion about the other entities (brief mention is OK where warranted), and creating a disambiguation page, similar to (but more polished than) the following:

Madison Square Garden can refer to:

I do commend User:Patken4 for taking the first step in splitting this article and creating the others. Any thoughts? (did I miss any other pages in the disambig?) -Sme3 (talk) 19:28, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There have been no objections in a month, so I've gone ahead and done it. (still Sme3, just under a new username). Me Three (talk to me) 03:34, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What Renovation[edit]

I am thinking that the renovation section should be removed. As a Ranger fan I have sent numerous letters to MSG regarding the Renovation. All have gone unanswered. It seems that the Gardens owners have no idea when this will, (IF EVER) take place. My belief is they are holding out to get a sweeter deal from NYC regarding the Farley Post Office. I don't believe the Garden will ever be renovated, and will be razed and rebuilt. So in light of this I believe until we have a clear idea, as to what will happen and when, anything about the renovation should be removed as it speculation, as long as they keep pushing it back. Thousands of Knicks, and Rangers fans are irate about this fiasco, and the fact that their teams, as well as the city of New York, will soon home to both leagues (NHL,NBA) Oldest building, once Pittsburgh opens the Consol Energy Center next year.--Subman758 (talk) 05:08, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Seeing as there were no objections, since I last posted this some 90 days ago. I have removed the entire Second Renovation section. Right now the renovation is all speculation, as the Garden's owners have continuously delayed it, over the last two years. Also there were no sources available to verify anything in the section.--Subman758 (talk) 18:18, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

1999?[edit]

Opening headline says "This article is about the arena built in 1999". I'm pretty sure that isn't correct, and it's probably old vandalism someone missed. Should it be changed to 1968? I've never touched this page before so I wanted to ask before I did it. Kjscotte34 (talk) 13:36, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, every few decades they drive out the rats, replace all the seats that have knives sticking in them, and call it a "renovation". Then, embarrassed that the self-anointed "Greatest City in the World" somehow contains the worst NBA or NHL arena (Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum excluded), certain New Yorkers try to convince the rest of us that Madison Square Garden has been made "new" again by some sort of wizardry. Not buying it.--172.190.43.213 (talk) 04:07, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That awkward moment when your wrong.ElectroPro (talk) 17:27, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Madison's Square Garden 2011.jpg[edit]

I added a new image to the Madison Sqaure Garden article Madison's Square Garden 2011.jpg in the section of the article: "History" I am the copyright holder of this image because I obtained it my self by taking a snapshot of it on my vaction to NYC last year in August of 2011 I copyright holder of this image give other users permission to use this image on any article that demonstrates or has to do with this image thank you and I hope all of you administrators and others users enjoy this imageIlovechoclate 00:50, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Assessment[edit]

I've made all the assessments agree on "C class". There is a lot of info here, but some of it is not well-referenced, and coverage is inconsistent among the various sections. So, I think C-class is right at this point in the article's development. - Ssilvers (talk) 00:08, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Split tag[edit]

There is a split tag on the section "Other notable concerts". In most cases the concerts are not notable. The section should be sorted out before considering a split. Op47 (talk) 20:42, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have now trimmed the section. Unless there was something clearly notable about the concert (other than someone famous gave a concert) then I have removed the concert. I did consider removing the section entirely, but did think that would not go down well. Op47 (talk) 21:17, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Other notable concerts[edit]

Stubled upon the Led Zeppelin entry. Can't be 1970 and 1977. The Zep article even suggests it's neither nor but from the 1973 tour. I'm quite confused. Anyone knowledgeable care to find out, what's right? -- 82.83.103.93 (talk) 08:46, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Seth Rollins[edit]

Please provide a source to this before you post please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BlueJuggalo300 (talk • contribs) 20:16, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Notable Concerts[edit]

I see this comes up every few years - the concerts section gets bloated with non-notable additions from fans of this band or that artist - so I've trimmed it again. It would be helpful to come up with some criteria for what artists and their MSG shows are notable enough to be included, otherwise we'll end up with a million bands in that section. Rockypedia (talk) 12:35, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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"Michael jackson"[edit]

the last paragraph under "Concerts" needs help. Both grammar and punctuation are a mess. PurpleChez (talk) 18:50, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"The World's Most Famous Arena" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect The World's Most Famous Arena. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 8#The World's Most Famous Arena until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. jp×g 02:43, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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