Talk:Faux Cyrillic

No mention of Н (Cyrillic letter N)

Too common of a resemblance between Cyrillic N (Н) and Latin H to make the list?

71.241.95.179 (talk) 10:32, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Тhе whоlе роіnt оf fаuх-Суrіllіс іѕ tо ѕuggеѕt thе dіѕtіnсtіvе арреаrаnсе оf Суrіllіс. Сhаrасtеrѕ ѕuсh аѕ В,Ѕ,Н,Р,С dоn't соntrіbutе tо thаt (аѕ І hоре thіѕ соmmеnt іlluѕtrаtеѕ). —Tamfang (talk) 05:11, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Section added

I have added a section describing a sort of opposite practice -- using Latin letters (plus a few numbers) to write Russian words in readable Cyrillic, as for example on automobile "vanity tags." Also, I do have available two example photos that I've taken recently, but I'm not sure about the privacy issues involved in uploading photos of a stranger's license plate (although I've already Photoshopped out such identifying details as the issuing U.S. state, and have cropped out the car maker's logos, etc.)Throbert McGee 00:15, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe someone can give some examples of practice? TETЯIS, дmeЯIкаи would be some, right? --Abdull 10:03, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I just saw 7НΣ НUИГ FОЯ RΣD ОСТОВΣЯ on SpikeTV. It manages to combine three alphabets, plus it has something like a backwards 'Г' in place of the 'T' in 'the'. When I saw that, I was stunned...Xyzzyva 18:15, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

I have the DVD of the Hunt for the Red October, and on the introduction (after the boat sails away, and the black screen appears with the title), I can confirm that the title appears in perfect Russian, and then the fonts "swipe/turn" (some kind of cool "morph-like" effect, to the correct title in English (roman alphabet). --Pinnecco 00:03, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

In Comic Books

In issues of The Flash from the late 1980s, faux Cyrillic in dialog ballons was used to indicate that the character was speaking in Russian. (Similarly, they used English letters styled to look like kanji to indicate Chinese.) This might bear mentioning in this article. 207.31.229.4 20:27, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

The same was done in American Flagg! a few years earlier, if memory serves. Likely more comics have done it than would be worth listing. —Tamfang (talk) 05:14, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Band typography

Isn't it a stretch to say that KoRn and NIN use faux Cyrillic? They seem to merely be typographic tricks that happen to look like some Cyrillic characters, but these bands don't use this elsewhere, or refer to Slavic or Soviet imagery (I'm not closely familiar, so correct me if I'm wrong). —Michael Z. 2005-07-26 14:57 Z

That will be in contrary of the true intentions of KoRn and NIN I supposed, and cannot be considered as faux cyrillic, just as diaeresis is used in certain rock bands and still not associating with places or languages that used diaeresis, such as French and German. Slivester 15:17, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

The bands aren't using them as faux cyrillic, but people on the internet are using the cyrillic unicode characters to create the mirror image, so it's still faux cyrillic in terms of unicode internet use. 67.5.159.38 03:08, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I would say not. Faux Cyrillic is a designer's technique of expression, not a technical function of Unicode code points. —Michael Z. 2006-11-03 17:27 Z

Just to be a nit-picker, a diaresis and an umlaut (mark) are not the same thing, even though they look quite similar. :) -- Schnee (cheeks clone) 13:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd say the same is also true for Linkin Park; I have removed them from the examples list.--Wasabe3543 11:56, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

S or I

I'm trying to think of if any of these can be used in User:Georgia guy/Seth Ilys impersonations but there appears to be no letter that is used for an S or an I. Anyone prove me wrong?? Georgia guy 02:21, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Ukrainian I and Yi (І, і; Ї, ї) can be Cyrillic substitutes for the Latin I, and I see you've already found the Cyrillic Dze (Ѕ, ѕ). —Michael Z. 2005-11-13 04:58 Z

Other alphabets

What about other kind of faux such as with Hebrew (I saw some similar jokes with Hebrew on the Simpsons) and Greek (My Big Fat Greek Weding) --Pinnecco 00:03, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

And Chinese restaurant menu fonts. —Michael Z. 2005-12-11 01:01 Z

I've seen it done with Japanese. -Litefantastic 00:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I've looked around for a good term for the general phenomenon, and the best thing I've found is foreign look font. Anyone interested in starting a new article or just making this article more general in scope?--Pharos 20:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

A new article is a better idea, because this one is not about a style of decorative font, but rather about the repurposing of letters from one script into another similar one.

I think "foreign-look font" is a clearer title, as "foreign" is not obviously an adverb. One might see the name in isolation and wonder what is a "look font", and what about the "domestic look fonts"?

And please be cautious and rely on good references, because many fonts may appear to be representative of something they're really not. For example, I've seen Papyrus font being used for the look of everything from Middle Eastern to Chinese or Japanese, when it was simply intended by its designer to have an ancient appearance. —Michael Z. 2007-07-10 00:51 Z

List of examples of faux Cyrillic

Let's keep two or three good examples, and remove the rest of this bit-dump. —Michael Z. 2006-02-08 18:58 Z

Meta-Faux Cyrillic?

Is the messed up spelling of the film "Night Watch" a true example of faux Cyrillic? My impression was that faux Cyrillic was used primarily to give a Russian feel to languages that don't use the Cyrillic alphabet. Since this is a faux Cyrillic spelling of the English way of spelling the Russian title, it seems like it might not qualify as bona fide faux Cyrillic. The only alternative name for this type of spelling that I can come with would be something like "meta-faux Cyrillic." I realize I'm asking for a strict definition of a made-up concept, but it's fun as an exercise in pilpul. Plus, that spelling makes my brain hurt. Did the film's producers think that would have any meaning to anyone? Sparkyfry 16:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

It's the romanized Latin spelling "NOCHNOI dOZOR", but rendered with Cyrillic-looking type: an example of faux Cyrillic. —Michael Z. 2006-06-29 21:24 Z

What about Toys "я" Us?

My most-hated use of Faux Cyrillic Rachel Pearce 12:37, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Please read the talk page and the article. That is an imitation of a child's mirror-image writing. It in no way tries to imply an Eastern European heritage for toys. —Michael Z. 2006-08-14 13:13 Z

Oops! Sorry. I never knew that about Toys я Us. I will still call it Toys Ya Us though. Rachel Pearce 13:18, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Toy Ya Us 124.104.29.152 (talk) 05:43, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Me too. —Michael Z. 2006-11-03 17:28 Z

Health warning?

A health warning on some of the articles may be in order; viewing faux Cyrillic text causes me to experience dizziness and nausea. Looking at a page full of it is pretty bad, especially when not actively trying to avoid parsing it. My first language is Bulgarian. I don't know if there is any research into this effect but it's very real. It seems to be similar to the effect of flashing images in bright colours. Krum Stanoev 12:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Where do you find pages full of it? —Michael Z. 2006-12-15 17:07 Z

I meant specifically this one: List_of_examples_of_faux_Cyrillic_typography The way normal English text and faux Cyrillic English alternates is particularly bad. Krum Stanoev 22:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough for that page. Perhaps it can be cleaned up by starting each line with an example of faux-Cyrillic text, followed by the description. —Michael Z. 2006-12-16 00:32 Z

It read a lot easier now than it did last year! Thanks to everyone :) Krum Stanoev (talk) 14:52, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes, I know this effect just too good. My first language is Russian and I instinctively read the faux Cyrillic as true one - then comes a natural wtf?-reaction from the brain and then the nausea. It takes a long time and quite some patience to read a short line in it even if I know it's faux. Interesting to know I'm not alone.:) 84.167.197.48 15:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

yep, same here Dunkelfalke 22:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived move proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was No Move.--Húsönd 18:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Faux Cyrillic → Fake Cyrillic – No reason to use an advertising euphemism for an article title when a clear English term exists. (This may also apply.) — AjaxSmack  18:26, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

• Related move: List of examples of faux Cyrillic typography → List of examples of fake Cyrillic typography

Survey

Add "# Support" or "# Oppose" on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

Survey - in support of the move

1. Support as nominator. — AjaxSmack  18:26, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Survey - in opposition to the move

1. Oppose. Common term. `'mikka 01:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
2. Oppose. *Mishatx*-In\Out 06:42, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
3. Oppose. Faux may equal fake in French, but in English it signifies imitation - whereas fake implies malicious deceit (I reckon). --catslash 16:55, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

Add any additional comments

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Licence plates

The stuff about licence plates is entertaining, and perhaps it is related to informal romanizations of Russian, but it has nothing to do with graphic design or typography. —Michael Z. 2007-06-18 14:21 Z

I've removed a lot of random but only slightly related material. The Paul McCartney album title is simply in Russian, not some form of reverse faux Latin. The licence plate material may warrant its own article if it can be adequately sourced, but it is a pop-culture phenomenon, and not a graphic-design practice. Please note the articles Russian Chat Alphabet, Translit, Volapuk encoding, and Informal romanizations of Russian, which are related topics (and possibly should be merged). —Michael Z. 2007-06-18 15:01 Z

Chochopk, please don't revert without responding in talk. I think I've explained why the material I removed was irrelevant to this article, or simply factually incorrect. If I'm wrong, please discuss instead of reverting. —Michael Z. 2007-06-19 06:09 Z

Perhaps the "Real" Cyrillic written with Latin typefaces material could go in the Volapuk encoding article, as an example of usage? --catslash 08:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of license plates, I noticed an interesting phenomenon when I was in Russia -- Russian license plates only make use of Cyrillic letters that look exactly like Latin letters. Benwing (talk) 06:48, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Phonetics

-- The phonetic example for pronouncing for В (Ve) is vase, this is ambigous as it doesnt clarify whether it means British English or American English (vah-se or vay-se), should there not be a different example maybe? BritBoy (talk) 15:34, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

It's the Cyrillic equivalent of the Latin consonant 'V'. I don't think it matters which vowel follows it in the example - but feel free to pick an alternative (van perhaps?). --catslash (talk) 18:41, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

WP:MOS

MOS says to use consistency throughout Wikipedia with the spelling of words. Toys "R" Us and Korn are the actual names of the articles, if you want to change it to the typeset, change the context of the article to say: Korn (typeset as KoЯn). Making the legitimate link to the article a redirect because of the typeset is unacceptable. — Κaiba 23:15, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good to me.

Please note that Toys "R" Us does not use a letter ya, implying that children worldwide have Eastern European characteristics, and Nine inch Nails does not use a Cyrillic i. These are simply reversed Latin letters, which have no etymological or scribal relationship to the similar Cyrillic letters (Latin N n is related to Cyrillic Н н, through Greek Η ν). Although the Latin typographic forms have influenced the Cyrillic, these look-alike pairs don't even have symmetry in most serif and some sans-serif fonts.

ЯR  NИ  ЯR  NИ

 —Michael Z. 2008-05-29 01:14 z

Yes it's surely a backwards R not a Я in Toys Я Us and KoЯn - but it would be clearer if shown rather than described. Would a pipe ( [[Toys "R" Us|Toys Я Us]] rendering as Toys Я Us) be acceptable? --catslash (talk) 12:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I was only objecting to the phrasing "For example, Toys "R" Us and Korn use a Ya (Я)," and "The "NIИ" wordmark of Nine Inch Nails uses a I (И)". I changed it to include "similar to Cyrillic Ya, Я", which still includes the comparison without implying the false relationship. —Michael Z. 2008-05-29 15:23 z

Neutral point of view

In April 137.186.84.54 added an WP:NPOV tag (among others), with the comment An utter lack of sources both makes it feel as though this is original research and NPOV is unverifiable without sources. This approaches a personal essay and not an article. The original research charge seems well grounded, but I struggle to see how this article could have a non-NPOV. Since 137.186.84.54 did not elaborate the NPOV problem on this talk page, it's impossible to respond to this charge. Therefore I'm just going to remove this tag. Please explain the apparent bias here before replacing the tag. Thanks, --catslash (talk) 14:16, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Faux Latin?

Are there ever any cases of Faux Latin in Russia or any other Cyrillic country?TheRealdeal (talk) 06:43, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Probably Faux Latin could be less appropriate here in Russia as literate Russians in general know pronunciation of Latin letters. But another phenomenon is observed lately - substitution of some Cyrillic letters by their Latin counterparts, usually in advertisement texts, to attract customers attention, to add some Western zest to a text and to emphasize the foreign origin of the advertized lot, like substitution of Russian "с" or "сс" with "s" and "ss", Russian "Л" with "L". —Preceding OlCher comment added by 88.147.231.73 (talk) 09:32, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

/ and 'k' for 'к' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.84.165.12 (talk) 10:44, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Russian attitude

I deleted this section because russians don't care about misuse of cyrilic letters. It is odd but not aggressive or something. It's actually funny. 95.53.138.175 (talk) 12:43, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

• Well, I cannot speak for all the Russians, but as being one I would say that faux Cyrillic is very ugly and very conufsing. It is all right if using for linguistic fun, but it is offending as commercial using. But who of you cares, since this is not being made for Russians.

• I hate this. Angry Russian. >:<

italic г

In my browser's default font, г is slanted rather than curvy, so the entry about its use for 's' or 'z' may be bewildering to some; could a note be added to the table? —Tamfang (talk) 05:18, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Agreed - it doesn't look anything like an s or a z in the font I'm seeing it in - it looks like r. -- 80.3.191.13 (talk) 03:18, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Usage by Manchester United fans

What about the backwards R's used by United fans on the banners, t-shirts and logos for the Stretford End ... e.g. ЯED ARMY and ЯEPUBLIK ФF MДNCUNIA. Shouldn't they be mentioned in the article as they're fairly well known designs.

Cyrilleet!

I feel the urge to share this: I got a Russian spam with some phone numbers, in which 0=О, 1=I, 3=З (z), 4=Ч (Č), 6=б (b). —Tamfang (talk) 15:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

know your sibilants

A recent edit changed the IPA in a surprising way:

Cyrillic	old IPA	new IPA
Ж	/ʒ/ as in "treasure"	/ʐ/ similar to "treasure"
Ш	/ʃ/ as in "ship"	/ʂ/ similar to "shrunk"

Aren't these the IPA for ЗЬ and СЬ? I was under the impression that Ж,Ш are never soft (in Russian). —Tamfang (talk) 04:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

soft Ш is Щ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.84.165.12 (talk) 10:46, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

No. The IPA for the soft letters you mentioned would be zʲ and sʲ, or, if you were to pronounce them as in Polish, ʑ and ɕ. The signs ʐ and ʂ are correct. They reflect the Russian pronunciation more precisely than ʒ and ʃ, although the difference is minimal.

Where is the original research?

This article contains the template {{Original research|date=April 2008}}, but where is the original research? There is some unreferenced material {{Citation needed}}, and some trivia, but not original research.--DThomsen8 (talk) 08:05, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

New Article: Faux Greek?

The same phenomenon happens with Greek letters all the time. See for example the movie "My Big Fat GrΣΣk Wedding" where the e's are replaced by sigmas. American fraternities and sororities do this all the time. I find it pretty laughable. It's a related topic, but I don't know enough examples to make a full article about it. So I just thought I'd mention it here.

I agree with the unsigned comment above. Example here: Saturn (store). Bye. --134.147.174.97 (talk) 18:51, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Other example: Youtube video. --134.147.174.97 (talk) 00:25, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

What about RLZKSR instead of RAZER? --134.147.174.79 (talk) 14:02, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

DRLGON instead of DRAGON: it seems there's a predilection to fake lambdas. I found something similar with a Renault logo but I do not remember the name of the model. --134.147.45.13 (talk) 22:10, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Or even GRSSK for GREEK... --134.147.45.13 (talk) 22:10, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

See Foreign_branding#Greek_characters_in_Latin_contexts. --M5 (talk) 15:55, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Videogames - Call of Duty: Finest Hour

The article says 'In Call of Duty: Finest Hour, when doing the Eastern campaign you can see many poster and banners written in Cyrillic. Also in the intro movie you can see a banner written in Cyrillic'. The article isn't about Cyrillic, it's about faux Cyrillic. I don't have access to that game so can't confirm if the game contains Cyrillic or faux Cyrillic, so am leaving it to somebody else to correct this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.100.191.84 (talk) 11:09, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Non-selective culling

The recent trimming of this article [1] could have been more selective. While the list of examples may have grown too large, some should be retained to illustrate the point. Also, what could be more relevant than Foreign branding? --catslash (talk) 20:24, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

The deletions include a reference to secondary source [2]. --catslash (talk) 20:53, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

(aside - here's another secondary source that could be used: Popular culture By David Manning White[3] and Fine Incisions: Essays on Poetry and Place By Eric Ormsby [4]) -catslash (talk) 21:05, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Pyccknn redirect

Should "Pyccknn" (which are the rough Latin characters for русский, the Russian name for the Russian language) redirect here, because when I typed it in I was expecting to go to the article on the Russian language.--Snakespeaker (talk) 23:22, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

You would be closer if you wrote "Pycckuu". But no, this isn't "faux Cyrillic", but rather "faux Latin". And if you really expected there to be a redirect to Russian language... Well, whatever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.206.142.151 (talk) 13:37, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Purpose

It doesn't have to have to do with Russia, Soviet Union or Slavic culture at all. Most people use it on the Internet to be fancy because letters look reversed. --2.245.167.254 (talk) 21:45, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Apps?

Are there any apps that can do Faux Cyrillic? Cyrillicfan (talk) 21:09, 24 March 2022 (UTC)