Talk:Antonine Wall

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Antonine Wall article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 180 days

Classical Greece and Rome Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Fortifications / Technology / British / European / Roman & Byzantine / Classical Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion not met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Fortifications task force
	Military science, technology, and theory task force
	British military history task force
	European military history task force
	Roman and Byzantine military history task force
	Classical warfare task force (c. 700 BC – c. 500 AD)

Architecture Low‑importance

	Architecture portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Architecture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Architecture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchitectureWikipedia:WikiProject ArchitectureTemplate:WikiProject ArchitectureArchitecture articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Scotland Mid‑importance

	Scotland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Scotland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Scotland and Scotland-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ScotlandWikipedia:WikiProject ScotlandTemplate:WikiProject ScotlandScotland articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Archaeology Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Archaeology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Archaeology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchaeologyWikipedia:WikiProject ArchaeologyTemplate:WikiProject ArchaeologyArchaeology articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Quotations from Bede[edit]

I have made it clear that Bede places the turf wall and the stone wall (Hadrian's wall) in the 400s, not the 120s, and he never identifies it with Hadrian. Although it is fairly obvious that Bede was referring to what we know say is Hadrian's wall, it is better that the page admits that Bede placed it in completely the 'wrong' era.Tatelyle (talk) 12:01, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Tatelyle turned out to be one of many sockpuppets of fringe author Ralph Ellis. Doug Weller talk 12:47, 2 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Gildas and Bede- I don't think so.[edit]

The article reflects what seems to be a consensus view, but one which is I think mistaken, and based on outdated knowledge. I doubt poor old Gildas even knew the Antonine wall had ever existed, and his "wall of turves" doesn't reference it.

Modern archaeology has revealed that for nearly half its length, the original Tyne-Solway wall built under Hadrian was an earthwork rampart not unlike the German Limes. This section was rebuilt in stone by Severus in the wake of the invasion of 192, and most of the surviving construction inscriptions honor him, not his predecessor (one of these is near Jarrow, and almost certainly represents the source of Bede's attempted correction). In other words, Gildas was talking about one location, not two, and had the construction sequence (if not the dating) correct; Bede only fixed the problem halfway so to speak. But neither author was referring to a distant and forgotten entrenchment far off in Caledonia; instead they were accounting for the biggest and most prominent Roman landmark in northern Britannia. -- Solicitr (talk) 15:18, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Bumping this, because the article remains unchanged and is in my view incorrect: Gildas was not talking about the Antonine Wall, because he didn't know it existed. Solicitr (talk) 15:37, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone speak animated gif?[edit]

The image right is the current version of the Roman Empire map, widely used in many language wikis, and purports to show the most northerly expansion of the Roman Empire - stopping at Hadrian's Wall. Curiously, the version timestamped 14:29, 2 July 2006 correctly showed true most northerly expansion to the Antonine Wall. Clearly someone got at the developer and got it hauled back to England. But the correct version is still available but can't just be reinstated as is because the live version had a useful enhancment, which was to show dates before 1 CE (AD) as negative numbers. So it 'only' needs someone to apply that change to the July 2006 version and republish, for the truth to be out there. --Red King (talk) 19:57, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Severan Wall[edit]

The article states "In 208 Emperor Septimius Severus re-established legions at the Antonine Wall and ordered repairs". However, the reference cited (The Scottish Campaigns of Septimius Severus) does not mention the re-establishment of the Antonine Wall at all. David Breeze in his 2006 book on the Antonine Wall states: "There is no indication that the emperors Septimius Severus and Caracalla paid any attention to the [Antonine] Wall when they crossed it during their campaigns against the Caledonians and Maeatae between 208 and 210. All our sources are silent on the point" (p. 171). Unless anyone has direct evidence supporting the re-establishment of the Wall in 208-10 I propose removing this statement. Kognos (talk) 20:11, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. There is abundant evidence that Severus had much of Hadrian's wall repaired or rebuilt, but nothing about construction work on the old northern site. Solicitr (talk) 16:23, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've now made the changes, citing Breeze (2006). Kognos (talk) 19:53, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"In Fiction" section[edit]

KnowledgeIsWonderful, you have repeatedly added a mention of "The Antonine Romans and The Golden Torque" to the "In fiction" section, and it has been repeatedly been removed by me and other editors. Not all works of fiction warrant mention in the article, only those that are notable in Wikipedia's sense the one you have been adding is not. That is why I have been removing it. Maproom (talk) 09:45, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. This "Antonine Romans and The Golden Torque" is notable. Rather than removing, please alter to what would be acceptable to you as this work is available on Amazon, Book Shops and Libraries. KnowledgeIsWonderful (talk) 09:59, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, it was removed on past occasions as I did not have the citation right, which I have now found out to do. Please therefore undo your last edit. Thank you. KnowledgeIsWonderful (talk) 10:34, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments and I have re-added, as the work is notable having been enjoyed from Amazon, Bookshops and Libraries, is as relevant as other entries in this Fiction Section and is properly cited. Goodbye.

KnowledgeIsWonderful (talk) 12:25, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please see WP:N to see how the word "notable" is used in this context. It means that there is a Wikipedia article on the subject. Maproom (talk) 20:11, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

English Heritage?[edit]

Why would the governing body be English Heritage for the Antonine wall? 86.19.21.195 (talk) 07:43, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed --Cavrdg (talk) 08:12, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]