Talk:Spence School

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C'mon Spence alums: your listed alumnae are very recent and aren't very scholarly (2 didn't come close to graduating). The emphasis on diversity makes me think that thou doth protest too much. Let's see some data that Spence girls aren't a bunch of rich kids; your alumnae list sure doesn't convince me...

This article was listed on votes for deletion; see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Spence School. —No-One Jones ^(m) 09:35, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Alumni/alumnae

IIRC, the feminine of alumni is alumnae --barista 07:05, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Miss Spence's School/Spence School: A major venue of America's ruling class

A google for this school under both names will show that many of the daughters of America's ruling class have attended this school. It would be useful to add some of their names, plus perhaps links to the various articles in TIME magazine about the changes in its leadership and style. Places like this are highly relevant if one is to study the history of women of the upper class in the United States.--Orange Mike 18:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

POV

Sentences like:

• Today, a challenging education to enrich the intellect, build character and strengthen spirit continues to form the cornerstone of a Spence education.
• Spence's curriculum has long been a leader among peer schools nationwide.
• Its 15 homerooms are designed for small classes and create a warm, child-centered learning environment.

Are entirely inappropriate in a neutral article. Unless they're fixed I'll revert the artilce to an older, more neutral version. -Will Beback · † · 20:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I took a whack at it. --Orange Mike 23:27, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, that's better. I think someone from the school came through and re-wrote it as an advertisement. -Will Beback · † · 00:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

"The girls from Spence are very hard working and have a very good sense of teamwork on all of their sports teams."; super neutral lol.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.187.71 (talk) 10:02, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Proposed additions and changes

{{Request edit}}

As both an employee in Spence's Communications Office and someone who is familiar with Wikipedia and its guidelines, I have changes to this page that I would like to propose as per the suggestions for COI compliance. Please let me know if any of these changes are inapproriate, as I am aware of and respect What Wikipedia is not, particularly a means of promotion. (Additionally, as far as I know, no one with any official link to the school has edited this article.)

The Overview section is slightly out of date; more recent figures are available here. This regards enrollment in particular; I'm not sure if the other information at this link is notable.

Especially since the acquisitions of the 93rd and 90th Street buildings are so recent, it seems worthwhile to mention that Spence has been in the Carnegie Hill neighborhood since 1929, when it bought 22 E. 91st Street. (The building's original facilities were located at 6 W. 48th Street. This and more information can be found here, though I'm not sure of the notability of the rest.)

It seems appropriate to include a list of popularly-attended colleges. This is part of what makes Spence notable enough to be mentioned in several books about prominent Manhattan schools; additionally, other area schools, including Chapin, Brearley, and Dalton contain similar information in their articles. This info is available on Spence's college list or five-year matriculation list.

Additionally, in 2010, Forbes listed Spence ninth on its list of America's best prep schools.

However, noting that article, it seems that we have some "notable alumnae" listed who are not, in fact, alumnae. Although both Forbes and this article list Aerin Lauder as a Spence alum, we can find no record of her attending Spence, neither from a credible resource nor our own databases. We are looking in to this, but for the time being, it may be best to simply remove her from the list until a reliable source can be cited. (It seems likely that Forbes and several other journalistic outlets use Wikipedia as a primary source for their articles, hence the focus on accuracy.)

Alley Mills and Jade Jagger both did attend Spence for a time; however, neither graduated from Spence, so it may not be proper to call them alumnae.

There are some other alumnae who may be more appropriate for this list, particularly to balance out the emphasis on actresses and daughters of famous people, which accounts for more than half of the people on the list:

Jane Kim, president of the San Francisco Unified School District Board of Education
Bonnie Jenkins, Ambassador
Nancy Hopkins, molecular biologist at MIT, also known for this

Finally, this seems almost shamefully pedantic, but the school is either called "The Spence School" or, more casually, just "Spence." This makes the title of the article (the in-between "Spence School") appear rather awkward to those familiar with it, akin to calling the New York Times simply "New York Times," or the Beatles as "Beatles."

I apologize if this is long-winded! I tried to be concise, but erred on the side of transparency. If there's more information that would be appropriate to add to the article, particularly regarding WikiProject Schools, I would be happy to add some more. --Trappleton (talk) 14:00, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for leaving this note about improvements to the article. Regarding alumnae, Wikipedia tends to use the broad definition of the term and include anyone who has attended, not just graduates. On the other hand, it tends to include only those who are notable enough to merit a biography. So Hopkins would qualify, but not Kim. As for the definite article, this is an issue that comes up often. (There's a discussion right now about "The" Beverly Hills Hotel). While the school's preferences are a factor, common usage is the most important consideration. If no one else gets to this list first, I'll see to it this week.   Will Beback  talk  16:00, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I've placed a references needed template on the notable Alumni section, but many of these people are still living, so per WP:BLP maybe all names of living people asserted to be alumni (and without citations) should be removed?... I have no idea where to look for this info (reliable/independent sources for Spence alumni). Shearonink (talk) 22:11, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

If we followed the BLP policy literally then there would be no "notable alumni" sections in school articles, and no "notable resident" sections in articles on cities and towns. I work on many articles of both kinds and the number of sourced entries is very small. If it's contentious then a source may be requested, but otherwise it is generally considered to be harmless to say that someone attended a school without providing a definitive source.   Will Beback  talk  22:40, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Just trying to be careful @ living persons. Re: Trappleton's post (especially about Aerin Lauder) I'm not sure how to source if someone attended Spence or not. An editor who states they are connected with the school has asserted she did not attend so I guess she didn't?.... I do like adding more alumni from different fields. Shearonink (talk) 02:25, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I've added most of the proposed material. I didn't add the list of frequently attended colleges because that doesn't seem to be common in school articles, even those on prep schools. In addition to the unlinked alumnae names already discussed, I see that there are three red links already on the list. Maybe writing bios of those three would be a nice project for a current student?   Will Beback  talk  23:54, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Many thanks! We really appreciate your work on the article. I'll pass along the info about the three alumnae who could use articles. As a bit of a follow-up, it seems that Aerin Lauder is genuinely not an alumna. Would it be okay if I or anyone else removed her from the list? Again, thanks a ton! If there's any other information I can provide, I'll be happy to. Trappleton (talk) 15:09, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I checked the newspaper archives and found one that says Lauder attended Chapin.

• RULING CLASS ; FORGET ACADEMICS, IT'S THE RIGHT HANDBAG THAT COUNTS AT THE CITY'S CELEB PREP SCHOOLS. DEBORAH SCHOENEMAN. New York Post. New York, N.Y.: Jan 23, 2002. pg. 037

Among Spence alums it mentions "K.K. Kravis", but there's no Wikipedia article on her so there'd be no immediate reason to add her here.   Will Beback  talk  19:12, 12 October 2010 (UTC)