Talk:Aberfan disaster

Excavated/recovered

Hi HJ Mitchell and the other IP. ‘Recovered’ makes it sound like people were saved - recover also means to get better from injury or illness. ‘Excavated’ is a perfectly good term for things being dug out of the ground: archaeologists use the term all the time. I don’t agree that there is a sense in which the bodies were being dug into - that’s really stretching common English understanding to breaking point. I’ll not revert, but I really don’t think ‘recovered’ is at all the right word to use. 213.205.194.63 (talk) 21:05, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Tend to agree. Bodies and/or human remains are often described as being "recovered" from the scenes of aviation accidents, which are often in the sea, where there can be no excavation. But here the bodies were engulfed in "mud sludge and rubble" and literally had to be dug out with shovels. So "excavated" seems perfectly appropriate to me. I imagine this is the word used in contemporary media reports, but I am not sufficiently familiar with them to know this. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:15, 28 January 2021 (UTC) p.s. IP 213, you seem to have been able to make a lot of useful and informed edits to multiple articles recently. I wonder had you considered formally registering as a Wikipedia editor. "lol"

PMSL. Thanks for the suggestion, but maybe not! Cheers 213.205.194.63 (talk) 21:24, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Good to see you're still about in some capacity. I try to keep an eye on some of your FAs. I'm not going to go to battle over it or anything, but "recovered" is not an unusual term to be applied to a body. I don't think the article leaves anyone under the impression that the bodies being recovered/excavated were still alive. It feels a more "artful" term (to me, at least) than "excavated". Or how about another term? "Dug up" or "dug out" would work just as well. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:27, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi Harry, yes, I’d seen you’ve been doing some tidying up from time to time - thanks very much for that. I’m just passing through, so I’ll leave the choice of what goes in there entirely up to you. Cheers - 213.205.194.63 (talk) 22:19, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Dear PMSL,

I had recently thought of rage-quitting my Wiki account and am looking for suitable precious articles to keep an eye on. I thought this might be a good one. But I can't stand the thought of facing begging letters from WMF every time I log on.

Yours, Befuddled of Tunbridge Wells (talk) 21:35, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

OMG I cannot believe the cast of characters that my little change has invoked. Just needs Malleus to show up and it's like housey housey. Oh, maybe Lir? Anyway, as I am not here, I think I should probably just shut up. It's not a big thing and does not require fisticuffs. I won't revert further. I am out of here. Best to all of you, 82.34.153.236 (talk) 21:41, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

My word, Father Jackum? That would be a turn up for the books. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:48, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

They do use the word "recovered" in contemporary reporting. The Liverpool Echo on October 21, 1966 says on the front page that "22 Bodies Recovered, 150 Missing" Richjenkins (talk) 18:36, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Cadw/Icomos listing

I'm always a bit cautious about changing the ending of an FA. I know the effort that goes into getting the structure right. But I think the 2022 listing on the Cadw/ICOMOS Register of Parks and Gardens of Special Historic Interest in Wales is significant. And, personally, I think the reason for its listing, as a monument "of great national importance and meaning" makes for a rather poignant conclusion. Others may disagree, and I'm absolutely fine with its being moved elsewhere, but I do think it warrants a mention. KJP1 (talk) 07:39, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi KJP1, it certainly needs to be referred to, and I think I agree it works well as the final point. I've tweaked the ref to be consistent with the others, but it looks a good addition. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 09:00, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Teachers

I see that Howell Williams died at the end of last month, [1]. I know that two of the four surviving teachers, Hettie Williams (nee Taylor),[2] and Rennie Williams,[3] have died previously. Does anyone know if the last of the four, Mair Morgan, is still alive? KJP1 (talk) 08:40, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Someone of that name and roughly the correct age died in 2009, though of course can't be certain that's her. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:45, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Nikkimaria - Thanks very much. I’ll do a bit more digging. They’re not uncommon Welsh names, as is Williams, held by three of the teachers, none of whom I believe were related. If Howell Williams was the last of the surviving teachers to die, it may warrant a note. Can discuss with User:SchroCat. KJP1 (talk) 13:02, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, definitely not a unique name - another Mair Morgan died in 2019, although that one was slightly older than this Mair Morgan should have been. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:05, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

I think it would certainly be worth a mention. A search of a news database doesn't show any articles mentioning her death, which I would have thought there would have been. The pictures of them at the inquiry shows all four were fairly young at the time (she was the same age as Howell Williams, so would be around 82 now), so it is entirely possible she's still alive. As a slight side note, Tim riley told me he used to work with someone who was shoved out the window by Williams on that day, thus saving his life. There are a few people walking around today who have a lot to thank him for. - SchroCat (talk) 13:25, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Indeed so. Before joining the Crown Estate, of which I was in those far-off days the librarian, my colleague had served in the Royal Navy and seen the world. He left one in no doubt about the debt he and fellow survivors owed to his teacher. Tim riley talk 13:58, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

I’d agree SchroCat - the fact that the deaths of the other two women, and of Howell Williams, have been covered, might suggest that she is indeed still alive. KJP1 (talk) 15:46, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Error in this paragraph

The Queen did not visit on the 29th of October: ”

Because of the vast quantity and consistency of the spoil, it was a week before all the bodies were recovered; the last victim was found on 28 October. The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh visited Aberfan on 29 October to pay their respects to those who had died. 208.38.231.66 (talk) 13:50, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

There are lots of sources which say 29 October. Do you have a reliable source that says otherwise? - SchroCat (talk) 16:34, 14 April 2023 (UTC)