Talk:Duchy of Lancaster

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Untitled[edit]

The Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall are not the only Royal Dukedoms in the UK, there are others: York, Edinburgh, Kent, and Gloucester. They are unusual entities it is difficult to summarise briefly, I have done my best. PatGallacher 15:17, 2005 May 19 (UTC)

A Duchy is not the same thing as a Dukedom. Proteus (Talk) 16:13, 19 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, one is passed on the left hand side.--feline1 (talk) 08:44, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Forgive my ignorance in these matters, but I was wondering why the toast refers to the current sovereign as "Duke of Lancaster" when Elizabeth II is a woman? Is it tradition that has led to the sovereign, regardless of gender, to be called "Duke", or something else entirely? -- 65.92.148.113 21:31, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it's exactly that. I believe it goes back to Victoria of the United Kingdom who believed the title of 'Duke' to be the appropriate title for the holder of a Duchy, as 'Duchess' is a courtesy title for the wife of a duke. Craigy (talk) 09:05, 1 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Biography?[edit]

Er, why us this tagged as a biography? It's about a piece of land, not a person. --Dr Greg 17:09, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

seems like it's about a shadowy organization, if you ask me 86.135.53.32 (talk) 09:27, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Edward VIII[edit]

If, as the article states, the Duchy is a personal possesion of the monarch rather than of the Crown as an abstract concept, why didn't Edward VIII maintain ownership of it after he abdicated? Did he need to also abdicate as Duke of Lancaster? --Jfruh (talk) 21:40, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is the 'personal possession' of the reigning monarch. Once the reigning monarch abdicates, he is no longer the reigning monarch, and thus his successor gets to be Duke of Lancaster. As you can see, it's basically a centuries-old tax dodge.--feline1 (talk) 14:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Source of profit?[edit]

So, where does the duchy's income come from? Is it mostly rent with the Duke as landlord, or what? 99.155.95.247 (talk) 22:39, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, quite a lot of it. And investment income. --feline1 (talk) 08:45, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This page needs to be updated to include the Paradise Paper's revelations that the duchy has invested "millions of pounds offshore" in well-known tax havens including Ireland, the Cayman Islands, and Guernsey, and its investments include the unsavory BrightHouse. <https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/05/revealed-queen-private-estate-invested-offshore-paradise-papers> 108.84.130.26 (talk) 14:32, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Illogical[edit]

I don't understand the logic behind continued existence of the Duchy of Lancaster. If it were a feudal Duchy, surely it should have escheated to the crown because the concept of holding a fief in fealty to yourself doesn't make any sense. But on the other hand, if it's the allodial property of the monarch, that would just make it part of the Royal demesne, which it isn't. So what exactly is it? Kannan91 (talk) 00:00, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's 19th century Antiquarian nonsense. The duchy of Lancaster exists as a territorial estate, but the title is non-existant since as part of the kingdom of Great Britain it reverted to the crown upon being inherited by some king of England long ago and hasn't left the crown in that time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.252.74.53 (talk) 06:09, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's a tax-dodge for the UK monarch. Nice work if you can get it.--feline1 (talk) 08:46, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I can't be a 'tax-dodge' since The Queen is not subject to tax, though as it happen she makes a voluntary contribution to the treasury from the Duchy income. It is essentially a property portfolio. The arguments about feudal minutiae are interesting but eventually pointless in the face of fact. The Duchy is separate because Henry IV wanted it so, and if you are familiar with Shakespeare's Richard II you will understand why: Henry returned to England to reclaim his father's title and estates as Duke of Lancaster, and made that demand of the King. When his expedition gave Henry the Crown as well, he was not going to be deprived of his patrimony, even by himself. Hogweard (talk)
What's about the Paradise Papers? Doesn't the Duché de Lancastre appears in those Paradise Papers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.193.104.227 (talk) 21:14, 5 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
All of this is true (evidence in Paradise Papers and alleged tax-dodge). See The Guardian's report on the duchy's offshore investments: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/05/revealed-queen-private-estate-invested-offshore-paradise-papers 108.84.130.26 (talk) 14:37, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

role[edit]

'==Role== The duchy is not the property of the Crown, but is instead the personal (inherited) property of the monarch and has been since 1399, when the Dukedom of Lancaster, held by Henry of Bolingbroke (Henry IV), merged with the crown on his appropriation of the throne (after the dispossession from Richard II). The Loyal Toast, "The Queen, the Duke of Lancaster" is still in frequent use within the County Palatine.

This is self-contradicting nonsense. I assume the article on the Duchy of Cornwall suffers from the same. These are Crown entities, or in other words, public property managed on behalf of the Crown, with proceeds assumed by the State? Some can surely do better than I in deploying some plain English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.186.30.44 (talk) 11:01, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It is not nonsense. It is not public property, the money does not go to the state, it is private untaxed income for the monarch. --feline1 (talk) 08:48, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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