Talk:Constellation

Patterns in constellations

Constellations are recognized not only by their patterns, but also by the bright stars in them. Is there any page that lists both the constellations and their prominent stars (or vice versa). I found individual stars and constellations lists, but not a page that has got both lists, maybe as a table. Jay 20:53, Sep 17, 2003 (UTC)

Miscellaneous early comments

(moved from article):

A WikiProject aiming to provide a standardized template to all the articles of the constellations is being developed. Please visit WikiProject Constellations for more details.

Any idea what User:210.72.12.71 is doing with his warnfiles and why is User:Jiang reverting him. Jay 07:50, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)

If somebody is interested, a great bunch of constellations mythological drawing are available within the GPL program stellarium. Also shots can be obtained using stellarium to provide nice visuals.

Constellations Grouped by Equatorial Quadrants

[moved here from Equatorial Coordinate System, not really sure what to do with it]

Quad	Constellations (Zodiacal constellations in bold)
NEQ1	08 (Pisces, Andromeda, Cassiopeia, Triangulum, Aries, Perseus, Taurus, Orion)
NEQ2	10 (Auriga, Monoceros, Gemini, Canis Minor, Lynx, Cancer, Camelopardalis, Leo Minor, Leo, Ursa Major)
NEQ3	08 (Coma Berenices, Canes Venatici, Boötes, Ursa Minor, Draco, Corona Borealis, Serpens, Hercules)
NEQ4	10 (Lyra, Sagitta, Aquila, Vulpecula, Cygnus, Delphinus, Equuleus, Cepheus, Lacerta, Pegasus)
SEQ1	14 (Sculptor, Phoenix, Cetus, Hydrus, Fornax, Horologium, Eridanus, Reticulum, Caelum, Dorado, Mensa, Lepus, Pictor, Columba)
SEQ2	11 (Canis Major, Puppis, Volans, Carina, Pyxis, Vela, Sextans, Antlia, Chamaeleon, Crater, Hydra)
SEQ3	14 (Corvus, Crux, Musca, Centaurus, Virgo, Circinus, Libra, Lupus, Norma, Triangulum Australe, Apus, Scorpius, Ara, Ophiuchus)
SEQ4	13 (Corona Australis, Scutum, Sagittarius, Telescopium, Pavo, Microscopium, Capricornus, Indus, Piscis Austrinus, Aquarius, Grus, Octans, Tucana)

Classical antiquity

Confused stuff in section Classical antiquity:

There is only limited information on ancient Greek constellations[citation needed], with some fragmentary evidence being found in the Works and Days of the Greek poet Hesiod, who mentioned the "heavenly bodies".[29] Greek astronomy essentially adopted the older Babylonian system in the Hellenistic era[citation needed], first introduced to Greece by Eudoxus of Cnidus in the 4th century BC.

That's not how I read the sources. Especially Rogers, J. H (1998), cited elsewhere claim that the Greek adopted the zodiak plus Aquila, plus (Hydra+Corvus+Crater) from the Babylonians. They also imported astrology. As for the other constellations, we ... don't exactly know, Rogers don't say, instead claiming something that the Greeks added them - I suspect the Greeks collected them from various sources. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 15:44, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Symbols

So somebody invents symbols for the constellations. They are completely ad hoc, and have no currency. Why on earth should we list them here?? -- Elphion (talk) 07:22, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

We shouldn't - nobody uses them, only those of the 12 zodiacal constellations. AstroLynx (talk) 07:53, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. I have deleted them. I also deleted them yesterday from the page on IAU designated constellations. Skeptic2 (talk) 08:21, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

I originally restored and moved them to Astronomical symbol on the grounds of the citations, but it seems from the Google search results that the first source is actually self-published and one of its co-authors is actually the creator of the symbols. So not exactly an independent RS, and so I deleted them again. Double sharp (talk) 15:42, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Point about not having them at the IAU constellation article, since they're not IAU. (But then half the abbreviations in that article aren't IAU either.) The one source may be self-published (I deleted it), but the other isn't: they were the publishers of Sky & Telescope magazine, and their book division's been bought out by Penguin Random House. — kwami (talk) 20:56, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Wow. Reminds me of H. A. Rey's alternative constellation drawings that get inserted from time to time....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:54, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Neither the abbreviations at IAU designated constellations nor H. A. Rey's diagrams are apposite here. The 4-letter abbreviations were in fact adopted by the IAU as an alternative to the 3-letter versions, since many astronomers wanted more memorable abbreviations, and they were picked up by NASA before IAU decided to abandon them. So there are good historical reasons to include them. Likewise, Rey's figures have been widely adopted by amateurs, and even influenced several of the charts currently published by IAU (though I am not aware that the constellation outlines in the IAU charts are official in any sense). These constellation symbols, on the other hand, are quite different. Nobody uses them. They were self-published. Sky picked them up once but they landed like lead balloons. There's no point in covering them. -- Elphion (talk) 22:11, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

I seem to recall a discussion about Rey's drawings being non-notable before. Evidence they are more widely adopted is intriguing but I guess we digress.....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:24, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Well, since there is an independent source, if these constellation symbols belong anywhere on WP I would suggest astronomical symbol. That list already includes asteroid symbols that no one other than the original discoverers ever used (e.g. 29 Amphitrite, albeit published in an actual journal then), so they would seem to meet the cut-off there. Double sharp (talk) 09:17, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Asteroid symbols might have gained some currency before they were given up, but constellation symbols never have, apart from the signs of the zodiac (which are not strictly the same thing anyway). If you could find a Unicode font with them in then perhaps I would reconsider.Skeptic2 (talk) 12:22, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

By "Unicode font", do you mean "Unicode"? — kwami (talk) 01:19, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

I would expect at minimum a formal proposal to add the symbols as Unicode code points (like the Tengwar proposal). Alternatively perhaps a generally available assignment (with some evidence that people use it) of the symbols to the Private Use Area. Without something like that, the symbols really aren't usable for information interchange. -- Elphion (talk) 21:35, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

And I doubt something like that would go very far anyway. Unlike the asteroid symbols (which could conceivably save a fair amount of writing for someone actually working on one of them), the constellation symbols save writing only the 3-letter abbreviations, which are far more memorable anyway. There's just no need for the symbols, and they would never catch on. -- Elphion (talk) 21:40, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Ancient India

Indian astronomy and easily sourced/researched Indian astronomers' contributions over many centuries are too many to have been entirely omitted in this WIKIPEDIA article about the subject. [Comment by 2a00:23c8:220c:6f01:893e:e63:1167:ebb4 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 17:26, 25 November 2023‎, originally on article page, moved here for reference.] -- Elphion (talk) 14:11, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

You could add such material, backed by references to Reliable Sources. At minimum, if you want this to go anywhere, you could suggest accessible sources for other editors to look at for material to add. Information does not get added by magic, it requires effort. -- Elphion (talk) 14:28, 26 November 2023 (UTC)