Talk:Joint cracking

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Knuckle joint[edit]

Which is the knuckle joint? In my dialect, all metatarsophalangeal, metacarpophalangeal, and interphalangeal joints are knuckles.

I'm pretty sure the knuckle in this context is the second joint down from the tip of the finger, as in "knuckle sandwich" Ortolan88

Dictionary.com: "The prominence of the dorsal aspect of a joint of a finger, especially of one of the joints connecting the fingers to the hand."

Quincy 18:27, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Renaming[edit]

Should we change this to "cracking joints"? I came to this page looking for information after cracking my jaw. Toes, spine, hips - many more joints are cracked than the knuckles. Alvis 02:52, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

No. I say no because people won't search for cracking joints they will search for cracking knuckles. User:Anonymous

You could change the name and have searches for "cracking knuckles" redirected. Jimp 7Jun05

Someone should definitely do that. I'd do that if I knew how, so someone please do. --Anonymous

Done Sr.Wombat 01:51, 19 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I know this is way after-the-fact regarding the above comments, but I did indeed come here searching for "cracking joints" -- my neck is able to pop and I'm wondering about the health consequences. Unfortunately, the article didn't seem to be much help. --Buddy13 (talk) 00:15, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Recent News[edit]

I have recently heard that cracking your knuckles may be beneficial to your body, or at the very least the idea of it causing arthritis is redicoulus. It says that the cracking of the knuckles keeps the joints active. -Unknown 17:01, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I know that when I feel a joint stiffening (not sure why that happens, I just can't move a joint as far as I want), cracking it relieves the pressure and I instantly regain its range of movement. -BlackTerror 04:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)api[reply]

I know that cracking my knuckles when I play the piano helps me play more rapidly.151.205.97.185J.Liu

But WP needs citations, not original research by editors. Alvis 08:51, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Endorphins[edit]

I read an article (http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/5jcl/5JCL59.htm) that said that cracking knucles releases endorphins. Of course, no sources were cited. Why would anyone do a thing like that? But as the article said, it's possible that those who crack their knuckles over a long period of time, at least in the hands, might notice a swelling of the joints in their fingers. As a person who had done this her entire life up to this point, looking at my hands, I would tend to agree. It's possible, however, that this might not apply to everyone.

Are you kidding? Why would anyone do that? Dude, endorphins is your body's Opium! Lot's of endorphin (and opiate) junkies out there; I run (about 5 miles a day) for my "fix".

Reply to Endorphins[edit]

Former opiate addict here: Cracking joints definitely gives me that little "sense of relief" that opiates used to, though it is short-lived. I have brought this up in many online discussions about joint-cracking, suggesting that this sensation might be the result of endorphin release in the body caused by joint manipulation. I have never received any responses on whether or not this is a possible explanation for this phenomena or any explanations for the possible mechanism involved in it. I know that "my feels" are subjective, but there really is no mistaking that particular feeling. I spent a good portion of my life trying to obtain it.

Chalk this up to original research if you must, but[edit]

Isn't it more likely that joint-cracking is the -symptom- of a condition rather than -causing- one? It'd explain any eventual correlation to any joint problems... People who crack joints _feel the need to_ and if you don't do it when you need to, they'll crack later on and much more painfully when you didn't expect it..

It certainly seems possible, but that's something for research to look at. Right now, that would be little more than speculation, and definitely not something for an encyclopedia.Ricree101 01:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Community[edit]

To overcome the uncertainty on joint cracking a community was formed at http://www.jointcrackers.com. Join today and share your experiences. --STGM 16:19, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

adding howstuffworks.com page[edit]

The people at Howstuffworks.com have been known to be pretty accurate in their claims. I'm adding a link to thier explanation at the bottom of the page. Teimu.tm 01:14, 17 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In this case, I'm not sure that the Howstuffworks.com page is a good reference for the in text citation. They reference Raymond Brodeur's study on knuckle cracking, which seems to be the following article:
Brodeur, Raymond. The Audible Release Associated with Joint Manipulation. Journal of Manipulative & Physiological Therapeutics; Apr95, Vol. 18 Issue 4, p155, 10p
However, if this is indeed the article, it is not the actual study. This article references the following two studies:

Swezey RL, Swezey SE. The consequences of habitual knuckle cracking. West J Med 1975; 122:377-9. Castellanos J, Axelrod D. Effect of habitual knuckle cracking on hand function. Ann Rheum Dis 1990; 49:308-9.

I haven't had a chance to read either yet, but it seems that the in text citation should be changed to whichever of these is more appropriate. The howstuffworks page might be appropriate for an external links spot, but since it is so far removed from the actual study I feel that it is inappropriate for the in text reference.Ricree101 21:53, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have added a citation needed tag in place of the howstuffworks reference. As I said before, I don't think that this page is an appropriate reference for the manner in which it was being used. That reference may have value for this page overall, which is why I only removed the link from that particular spot and left it in the reference section, but it is not appropriate to use it to reference a particular study. As I said before, the howstuffworks page is references a study which doesn't actually seem to have any original research of its own. If you want to discuss a specific study, it is much more approriate to reference papers that are directly regarding that study. We have a responsibility to provide as accurate of information as possible, and this can only be done if we are carefull about our sources. By using such an indirect source to discuss a scientific study, I feel that we are not upholding that responsibility.Ricree101 02:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Neck cracking[edit]

Does this information also relevant for neck cracking? It's not even mentioned here. . . I'm not sure, but I've linked neck cracking with hedaches in my case. --ComposerWannabe 17:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Me too, but I think that is do to the rapid head movement--rather than the cracking. Of course sinse all of that is speculation it has no merit in the article. If someone would like to find out more on that and add it to the article that would be perfect.TrevorLSciAct 00:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I went to a chiropractor a year ago, because of chronic migraines. My neck was indeed the problem, and it was because of my constant cracking it. It was two inches out of alignment, and the strain was terrible. I can assure you, I crack my neck rather slowly.64.91.86.129 09:17, 4 November 2006 (UTC)SeraphicMaster[reply]

Chiropractors are not doctors and are infamous for giving pseudo-diagnoses.--Nimnom (talk) 11:21, 17 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me, if your neck was two inches "out of alignment", you'd have more than headaches, you'd likely sever your spinal when you turned your head. Again, chiropractors are not medical doctors. --Kingoomieiii ♣ Talk 16:50, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So, when I was looking AT my x-ray and could see how far out of proper alignment it was, that was... what? My imagination? Do explain. Also, explain why I've been headache free for the last five years after using the brace given to me, and the stretches shown. In any profession you're going to have good and bad. 208.157.190.17 (talk) 02:17, 20 April 2011 (UTC)SeraphicMaster@gmail.com[reply]

I might note that if you do it slowly aiding it with your hand it seems perfectly safe. Original research if you will, but it does wonders for me. Max (talk) 05:06, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is not the place for it, but... A strained neck, tense muscles, causes headaches. When I stretch mine in accordance with the recommendations for stretching I have no headaches. Observe your shoulders and pay attention to that you're not constantly lifting them up. Most likely the cracking is the symptom; not the cause. --Ceriel Nosforit (talk) 17:55, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"palmarly"[edit]

Excuse me, but can anyone tell me what "palmarly" means? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.152.45.112 (talk • contribs) .

You can't figure it out from the first four letters? In this case it means "toward the palm". —Keenan Pepper 07:01, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Palmar direction" would be more suitable i believe. 203.15.35.100 12:59, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Spine[edit]

Can cracking the spine be considered "cracking a joint"? I can do that, it feels a bit weird but it releases tension. 195.50.204.99 23:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and this is what chiropractors, osteopaths and some physical therapists do when they use spinal manipulation. Davwillev 17:20, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, the spine is a series of articulated joints the way I think of it. Tyciol (talk) 00:03, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Castellanos[edit]

"habitual knuckle crackers are more likely to have hand swelling and lower grip strength from Castellanos J., Axelrod D. "Effect of habitual knuckle cracking on hand function" in 'Annals of the Rheumatic Diseases' pg 49(5):308–9 published 1990.

Has anyone been able to check this source to see the nature of the study and its validity? Is it based on any theory or prolonged observation or diagnosis? The problem here is simply stating it like a fact seems anecdotal. However, stating something like this without a theory behind the observation gives an incomplete-sounding proposal. For example, the statement alone without explanation can give incorrect interpretations of causality. Do people with swelling become weak, and does swelling create more gas bubbles? Or is it that the cracking creates swelling and weakens the grip? Or could they mutually contribute to the other? I would like to know if the source cited for this statement is reliable and if its citation is complete, or if there were any hypotheses posited by the researchers to explain their observations. Knowing the quality of the study, the length and reliability would also be useful, and if there have been contrary or supplementary studies on this topic. Tyciol (talk) 00:03, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The swelling caused by habitual knuckle cracking is not due to any kind of "buildup" of bubbles or gas. The swelling is casued due to continuous deposition of cartillage between the bones, since every "crack" that you do causes that small bit of tear/shock inside the synovial joint between the joint bones and the body by auto-immune reflex creates cartillage to counter these sudden shocks. So you end up with knuckles that are much more...thick and bulge out at the joint areas when compared to the adjacent bones. Effects of this cartillage buildup on grip strength is unknown, but the swelling Does indeed take place for Habitual crackers.

I had added this point a long time back to this article but seems like someone deleted it out for no apparent reason. Citations for this I dont have, someone from research could search that out instead of dismissing this factual point as original research.Was†ed(Ag@in) _{‡ † ©} 02:27, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Medicinal reasons to crack joints[edit]

Extreme relaxation is experineced after joint cracking relievng stiffness and when combined with certian illegal drugs such as exstacy the cracking experince is hightened 10 fold

"Enhancing a trip" is not a "Medicinal reason" to do anything

Which gas?[edit]

Which gas?

"The contents of the resultant gas bubble are thought to be mainly nitrogen." according to this page.

"The contents of this gas bubble are thought to be mainly carbon dioxide." according to the Joint manipulation page.

Both are referenced. Both reference "# ^ Unsworth A, Dowson D, Wright V. (1971). "'Cracking joints'. A bioengineering study of cavitation in the metacarpophalangeal joint.". Ann Rheum Dis 30 (4): 348–58. PMID 5557778. " specifically.

I'm not going to go read a medical whitepaper... So which is it? 96.225.201.101 (talk) 08:13, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't Nitrogen bubbles (as in the bends) be a bit of a painful problem? I'm thinking it is definitely not Nitrogen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.42.16 (talk) 17:39, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As a layperson, it seems that ubiquitous Nitrogen should not be an issue. Given that Earth's atmosphere is 78% Nitrogen by volume, most of the air we breath is Nitrogen. The problem with The Bends, is that bubbles form throughout the body. A single bubble forming temporarily in a joint that is being cracked is much less bothersome. Furthermore, the fact that the bubbles that are released throughout the body during the Bends are Nitrogen, makes it highly likely that the gas that is released from the fluid in the joints is also Nitrogen. Stephanous (talk) 21:53, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with that theory is that nitrogen is not absorbed by the lungs in significant amounts except under high pressure - as experienced during scuba diving. Under normal conditions there simply isn't significant free nitrogen in the body. Roger (talk) 16:59, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jaw Cracking[edit]

Jaw cracking

The causes of jaw cracking are by eating chewing gum rapidly or slowly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.22.253.217 (talk) 20:51, 20 January 2010 (UTC) The specific term of jaw cracking is a complete area of research within the dental profession it includes occlusion, orthodontics and other dental specialist, is an area of research in TMJ.Temporomandibular Joint.[reply]

The jaw cracking has many causes and different types of treatment. it can produce pain in different areas of the head and neck.

it's not cause only for one reason, can be product of inappropriate dental work, lack of dental tooth or teeth,maloclusion,premature contacts of the teeth,lack of anterior guide or canine guide,stress and other factors. It can be painless but it reflect that somthig wrong has happend to that join. Some people has only the cracking or popping sound and others have a more disturbing painful disease. 201.108.204.98 (talk) 16:28, 19 May 2017 (UTC)Dr. Raymundo garcía Lamelas orthodontic specialist201.108.204.98 (talk) 16:28, 19 May 2017 (UTC) ^[1][reply]

References

^ craeomandibular disfunction. Afeccciones de los musculos maticadores y de la articulacion temporomandibular.Dolor orofacial,Horacio O Maglione, Jorge Laraudo y Luis Zavaleta ISBN: 978-958-8328-26-3

study not sufficient[edit]

Reference 5 does not seem to be a convincing study. It states habitual cracking leads to hand swelling and reduced grip. But only 300 people are used in study when there are millions of people who crack joints. To apply the findings of 300 people to 7 billion people on earth is a stretch. At best it is a small study which is not backed by any other study at all. For instance there are 100s of studies indicating cavitation and release of gases causes the popping sound. The study should have used a much larger sample size. Also the study is restricted to senior age group only. Many young people are habitual crackers too who dont report any lost grip or swelling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.35.36 (talk) 12:44, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Involuntary Joint Cracking[edit]

Does anybody else experience regular involuntary joint cracking? My joints seem to crack regularly and unintentionally, when I move them around. Especially with my elbows, knees, toes, wrists, and ankles. It is practically unavoidable. Is this normal? I hope this doesn't make me predisposed to arthritis seeing how I can't stop it. I do habitually crack my knuckles by pulling on my fingers. It seems to markedly relieve stiffness and feels beneficial when I play guitar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.161.21.186 (talk) 01:50, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This sounds like something you should ask a doctor. You shouldn't rely on Wikipedia (or any website, really) for medical advice; please see the medical disclaimer. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 03:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Irrlevant fact[edit]

The last line of the "repercussion" section has no relevance at all in this context, whether the guy is a doctor or not. While it might be a good idea to have a "side notes" section mentioning the ig Nobel price (which I love, don't get me wrong), having it in the "repercussion" section is likely to make people draw unfounded conclusions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crackettt (talk • contribs) 10:34, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I totally agree. ig Nobels are some times very interesting (see the recent fMRI-dead fish ig Nobel which really showed some important flows of the fMRI analysis methods employed), however in this particular case it is more of a joke than an actual study. It really says nothing that one guy was cracking his one hand joints and didn't get arthritis. It is called "single observation". I don't say it shouldn't be mentioned as a side note, as suggested above, but being in the repercussion is plainly wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikolas Karalis (talk • contribs) 13:39, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Purpose of cracking[edit]

Darth Pipe (talk) 01:50, 21 June 2012 (UTC)This article states "... to produce a ... sound", implying the reason it's done is for entertainment. Why is no mention made of tension and pain relief, as noted in several articles? Some consideration should be given to the purposes behind this activity and its potential medical benefits as well as the listed risks.[reply]

I think the opening sentence is intended to describe what cracking joints is, not why it's done, though I see the wording is ambiguous. It says under Causes "cracking a joint that has been exercised recently is generally recognised to be palliative", which alludes to what you're saying, but this could be said more clearly and in the lead. Feel free to improve the article, though you might want to take a look at WP:MEDRS. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 10:05, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It would also be nice to find a source and mention that frequent joint cracking can also be a symptom of an obsessive-compulsive disorder. 76.10.128.192 (talk) 02:29, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wired article and MRI of cracking joints[edit]

I just thought I'd alert the regular contributors to this article of the recent article by Wired magazine which includes a gif of an MRI of a person cracking their joints. See the article. Dismas|^(talk) 03:27, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Promotion of pseudoscience in the article[edit]

"routinely performed by a chiropractor, osteopath or "
Why are the first two pseudosciences placed right next to and before the name of a branch of medicine? How can this be improved? I suggest explcitly stating that the first two are fraudulent.--Adûnâi (talk) 19:04, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've reworded it to make the distinction — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.223.180.216 (talk) 16:30, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

[1] raeomandibular disfunction. Afeccciones de los musculos maticadores y de la articulacion temporomandibular.Dolor orofacial,Horacio O Maglione, Jorge Laraudo y Luis Zavaleta ISBN: 978-958-8328-26-3

[1]