Talk:Armenian genocide

Pathetic sources

"The CUP allowed Armenian women to marry into Muslim households, as these women had to convert to Islam and would lose their Armenian identity."

The sources used in this article are so weak and unreliable, the authors did not even know Hanefi school of Islam (which Turks belong to) already allowed marriage between Muslim men and Christian (Armenian) women. 84.51.29.38 (talk) 03:09, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, perhaps the phrasing could be improved but according to Islam (to my understanding) the marriage itself affects conversion such that the women would now be viewed socially, legally, etc. as Muslims. (t · c) buidhe 03:29, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

No there is no conversion. According to Hanafi school of Sunni Islam, Muslim men can marry with Christian/Jewish (people of the book) women. Husband cannot even bar the wife from going to Church/Synagog. Children from these marriage will viewed as Muslims.

This is a starred article but it is full of unreliable sources, cycle references and conspiracy theories. 84.51.29.38 (talk) 12:41, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Why don't we revert the page's template back?

back to the one where it had the information about the genocide on the right? Peachy1621 (talk) 05:52, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Merge proposal from "Rescue of Armenians during the Genocide"

I propose merging the information from Rescue of Armenians during the Genocide to this page.

I think the content in other page is highly relevant but also so short that it might as well just be included here. That work might need to occur alongside analysis of the source problem flags that exist on the "rescue of..." page. Armeym (talk) 01:43, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose This is a featured article, it already contains all the content that it should. A better solution would be expanding the rescue article. I recommend Mouradian's The Resistance Network as a source. (t · c) buidhe 01:56, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose However it must be merged into Rescue of Armenians during the Armenian genocide, since they deal with the same topic.--RekishiEJ (talk) 02:23, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Armenian Genocide death toll infobox

@Buidhe I saw you put the range, but I put "around 1 million" to similarly match the one for the Holocaust. A book by historian [[Richard G. Hovannisian]] puts the toll between 600,000 to 2 million, with a United Nations report putting it at around 1 million. Should the whole range be put or an approximate value? Reaper1945 (talk) 03:19, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

We had discussion about this a while back, and there was consensus to put the 600,000 to 1.5 million range in the infobox if one was included. 2 million is not credible according to recent scholarship (although 1.5 isn't well supported either). (t · c) buidhe 03:21, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Got it, I'll check for any recent clarifications of the death toll if there have been any made in the 2020s, if not, the 2019 source you provided seems best then. The source by Richard G. Hovannisian is from 1999, though may have some relatively good information. Reaper1945 (talk) 03:24, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Berliner Tageblatt, 4 May 1915 Newspaper Source

When I checked the newspaper source mentioned in the article and book, I do not see anything related to this topic in both morning and evening editions dated 4 May 1915. So, this source should be removed.

Here are links of those editions, you can check:

1, Morning: https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/newspaper/item/SXUBVSELYJ6H5T7YE27H43WICSTZQOSZ?issuepage=1

2, Evening: https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/newspaper/item/G3BAA2LRGIH2UGC3ROEJKCI3MR4DH36F?issuepage=1 Spiny14 (talk) 17:10, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

The quote is real as you can easily verify with Google, it's even the title of of a Swedish book. It's possible that the date is wrong (t · c) buidhe 18:32, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

According to Ihrig, the quote is from "Wilhelm Feldmann, “Unterredung mit Talaat Bei: Die Völker des türkischen Reiches im Kriege,” Berliner Tageblatt, 4 May 1915."

However, there seems to be a typo as it was actually 1916:

• Bozarslan et al. says it was in "May 1916" but don't provide a date, they got it indirectly.
• Gunter Levy (not really a RS), puts it on 5 May 1916[1]
• There's another source that says 4 May 1916[2]
• Hovannisian says 1916[3]

So I will change it to say May 1916

subsequent to me writing the article, this exact quote seems to have been lifted repeatedly by various students and newspapers. I guess it was the right decision to block quote it. (t · c) buidhe 01:18, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Update:I found the interview in the Berliner Tageblatt und Handels-Zeitung, Morgen-Ausgabe Donnerstag, 04.05.1916. p. 4 (upper right corner) (t · c) buidhe 04:56, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

"Second most studied" genocide

This is indeed a very strong claim that I cannot confirm in other sources. (If you look at Google scholar results, there are significantly more for the Rwandan genocide than the Armenian genocide.) Regardless, we're going to need a stronger source than one book by Bartrop to include this claim. I wonder how he arrived at this conclusion, or if he just cites Rummel from 1998. (t · c) buidhe 04:46, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Since there is no response, I'm removing it. (t · c) buidhe 06:24, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Paul Bartrop is a legitimate source as a historian, looking on Google Scholar alone is original research in of itself to deny what something may be. Is there any actual source which states that the Rwandan genocide is studied more than the Armenian genocide? Reaper1945 (talk) 00:27, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

There are a lot of genocides in history, so the claim of "second most studied" requires more support than you have shown. WP:REDFLAG

If only one recent source says it, regardless of whether I thought it was true, I would have to argue for exclusion because of WP:UNDUE. Everything in this article could have several citations behind it! (t · c) buidhe 01:59, 17 April 2024 (UTC)