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Thurgood Marshall has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 27, 2022	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on January 14, 2023.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that when asked by reporters why he was retiring, U.S. Supreme Court justice Thurgood Marshall replied: "What's wrong with me? I'm old. I'm getting old and coming apart"?

Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on June 13, 2004, October 2, 2009, October 2, 2010, October 2, 2014, and October 2, 2023.

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Rewrite[edit]

I've spent the last month or so rewriting Marshall's article, and I'd appreciate it if some talk-page watchers would take a look at my work: see User:Extraordinary Writ/Thurgood Marshall. It's not perfect, but I've tried my best to put together a fully sourced article that provides a more-or-less comprehensive overview of Marshall's life and work while remaining concise and readable for the million-some-odd people who view this page each year. I don't want to just move it into mainspace without getting the all-clear from folks on the talk page first, so I'd be eager to hear any and all feedback. Thanks in advance! Extraordinary Writ (talk) 00:14, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to mention this again: I'd be glad to consider any suggestions or concerns regarding my rewrite before I incorporate it into the mainspace article. If I don't hear anything, I'll just be bold and assume consensus, but I'll still be happy to listen to any feedback, at any point. Cheers, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 07:19, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just noting for the record that I've moved my rewritten version into mainspace. Again, I'd still be more than happy to listen to any thoughts and comments that talk-page watchers might have—please feel free to let me know if there's anything I've overlooked. Cheers, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 04:16, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent work! I've added an interesting quote by Rehnquist to the "Retirement, later life and death" section. Equilibrial (talk) 10:53, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 00:23, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that when asked by reporters why he was retiring, U.S. Supreme Court justice Thurgood Marshall replied, "What's wrong with me? I'm old. I'm getting old and coming apart!"? Source: Ball, Howard (1998). A Defiant Life: Thurgood Marshall and the Persistence of Racism in America. New York: Crown Publishers. p. 379. ISBN 978-0-517-59931-0.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Made You Look (Meghan Trainor song)
- Comment: If anyone could help me with the punctuation in this hook, that would be great.

Improved to Good Article status by Extraordinary Writ (talk). Nominated by Unlimitedlead (talk) at 22:06, 29 October 2022 (UTC).[reply]

@Unlimitedlead: Sorry but I have to fail this. Per DYK newness rules, if an article is a bold link in the prose section of "On this day..." then it is ineligible for DYK. I don't why the newness category rules have to be so weirdly specific nor do I know why this rule was added in the first place. Which sucks too because I would've loved for this to become a DYK but I have to follow the DYK criteria. Sorry Onegreatjoke (talk) 00:24, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- @Onegreatjoke: Ah, that is truly a shame. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Unlimitedlead (talk) 00:55, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - I've posted a note at DYK – it'd be a shame to close this so soon. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 00:05, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Theleekycauldron: Do you know if this nomination can proceed? The discussion at DYK somehow spiraled into a full-blown argument in the past month, and frankly, I have no idea what's happening! Unlimitedlead (talk) 01:56, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      - First time? :P it looks like the discussion is going to resolve in favour of allowing the hook (goes outside, turns around three times, and spits), so I think we just have to wait for a close. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 05:55, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, saying "I'm old" is not unusual or intriguing (WP:DYKCRIT). And readers with special knowledge or interest in this subject will certainly have strong opinions about the choice of quote. Joofjoof (talk) 19:33, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I thought it would be humorous and interesting to find out that Thurgood Marshall, one of the most important figures in American history, sassed reporters. Unlimitedlead (talk) 20:59, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is a good hook, for the reason User:Unlimitedlead said. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 13:19, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The RfC and related discussion has closed, and the rules have changed so former OTD/ITN/TFAs are now eligible for DYK at least a year after their latest appearance. Given that Marshall's article was last a bolded link in 2014, the article should now be eligible for DYK and thus the review can proceed. Courtesy ping: @Extraordinary Writ, Onegreatjoke, Theleekycauldron, Joofjoof, Unlimitedlead, and Mx. Granger:. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:10, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Working on the review now. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:53, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks. With all the chaos at DYK over the past 3 months, I almost forgot this hook was never actually reviewed! Unlimitedlead (talk) 16:51, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As noted above, this is now considered DYK-eligible. No article or hook issues (I agree it's interesting enough to a broad audience), and QPQ was done. Punctuation in the hook looks fine to me. I made some small edits that then nominator/major editor might like to review in this series of revisions. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 17:19, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the review, FFF! The edits all look good to me. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 20:22, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Social engineering[edit]

Thurgood Marshall is described as engaged in Social engineering (political science). But there is no link referencing this concept to Social engineering. I recommend that a link be provided. Merriam-Webster dictionary has the definition here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/social%20engineering

Thurgood's Real Name[edit]

Thurgood marshal was born Thoroughgood Bruh138 (talk) 21:54, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We already cover that. See the infobox and Note a. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:58, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Work with FBI and J. Edgar Hoover[edit]

Shouldn't Marshall's behind-the-scenes work for the FBI and J. Edgar Hoover (specifically to undermine civil rights activist T. R. M. Howard) be mentioned in this article, if only briefly? Source: https://www.newsweek.com/strangest-bedfellows-169718 173.88.246.138 (talk) 01:39, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion on Terminology: "African American" vs. "Black" in Reference to Thurgood Marshall[edit]

Hello fellow editors,

I hope this message finds you well. I'm writing to initiate a discussion regarding the terminology used in the Thurgood Marshall article, specifically the terms "African American" and "Black."

Recent discussions and guidelines, notably those in the context of legal definitions, suggest a more nuanced approach to these terms. According to 28 CFR § 42.402 (e), as referenced in the [Cornell Law School's Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/42.402), the definition for "Black, not of Hispanic Origin" is a person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.

Given Thurgood Marshall's significant contributions and his historical and cultural context, and he was born in American, it may be appropriate to consider if the term "Black" aligns more accurately with current understanding and definitions, rather than "African American."

This discussion aims to align our article with accurate and respectful terminology, considering both historical context and modern legal definitions. I believe it is important to address this in light of evolving understandings of ethnic identities.

I invite all editors to provide their insights and opinions on this matter. Should we consider revising the article to replace instances of "African American" with "Black" in accordance with the federal law definition as stated in 28 CFR § 42.402?

Looking forward to a constructive and respectful discussion.

Best regards, Sleeplessmason (talk) 16:31, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Manual of Style doesn't give any advice on this particular question, so it's just left to editors' discretion. The article does use both "black" and "African American" in places; typically I just opted for the term that was clearest and read most naturally in context. It's not a hill I'm going to die on, but I don't see a strong reason to get rid of a term that is frequently used in reliable sources and unambiguously conveys the intended meaning. If your concern is about the term generally rather than this article specifically, you might consider bringing it up at WT:MOS, although I expect editors there would say that both terms are acceptable. Note that Wikipedia's style doesn't always match what US government regulations use: typically style guides and reliable sources more generally are given greater weight. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 02:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with EW, and I'll add that I'm not understanding the argument. Other parts of the federal code use African American synonymously with Black. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:14, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Birth date[edit]

Everyone, I don't know how to add a section to the talk page, so sorry for the inconvenience. The Wikipedia article states that Marshall was born on July of 1902, but a government article states that he was born one month earlier.^[1]Also, this is the best that I can cite, link is here: https://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/educational-activities/justice-thurgood-marshall-profile-brown-v-board — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:249:A00:8C30:3BAA:4756:6B06:4F08 (talk • contribs) 18:29, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. It looks like this is just a mistake by uscourts.gov: nearly all other online sources use the July date, and all five of the five print books I checked do too. I'm going to send them a message asking them to correct the error, but either way our article should follow the overwhelming majority of sources and use the July date. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 05:24, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ ---, ---. Justice Thurgood Marshall Profile - Brown v. Board of Education Re-enactment. U.S.A Courts https://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/educational-activities/justice-thurgood-marshall-profile-brown-v-board. Retrieved 16 January 2024. {{cite web}}: |last1= has numeric name (help); Missing or empty |title= (help)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2024[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

he was born 1907 40.130.101.194 (talk) 16:17, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: the sources support 1908. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 17:35, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ---, ---. Justice Thurgood Marshall Profile - Brown v. Board of Education Re-enactment. U.S.A Courts https://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/educational-activities/justice-thurgood-marshall-profile-brown-v-board. Retrieved 16 January 2024. {{cite web}}: |last1= has numeric name (help); Missing or empty |title= (help)

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